Mother's milk
Today in court Judge Barbara Walther said sure, breast milk is best for babies, and yes, nursing helps them bond with their mothers but in this country mothers routinely go back to work six weeks after delivering a baby.
In other words, toughen up. There will be, Walther said, no concession for the FLDS ladies who are nursing. Once Texas gets its DNA samples from them and their children, the mothers will be sent home. It is hard enough to find homes for infants, the judge said, without adding a mother to the mix.
Proponents of breast-feeding acted swiftly after hearing about the judge's refusal to step in and let FLDS mothers who are nursing stay with their infants and toddlers.
Nicole Hoff of Texas immediately put together a blog site to rally support for the FLDS mothers. And other women helped spread the word. I got an email about Hoff's Web site from Ruth Bell.
Ruth said: ''Separating unweaned babies from their breastfeeding mothers hits a nerve because it is so barbaric and unnecessary. It crosses the line of human decency and compassion and in no way aids the goal of emancipating them from an 'oppressive' society.''
In other words, toughen up. There will be, Walther said, no concession for the FLDS ladies who are nursing. Once Texas gets its DNA samples from them and their children, the mothers will be sent home. It is hard enough to find homes for infants, the judge said, without adding a mother to the mix.
Proponents of breast-feeding acted swiftly after hearing about the judge's refusal to step in and let FLDS mothers who are nursing stay with their infants and toddlers.
Nicole Hoff of Texas immediately put together a blog site to rally support for the FLDS mothers. And other women helped spread the word. I got an email about Hoff's Web site from Ruth Bell.
Ruth said: ''Separating unweaned babies from their breastfeeding mothers hits a nerve because it is so barbaric and unnecessary. It crosses the line of human decency and compassion and in no way aids the goal of emancipating them from an 'oppressive' society.''
25 Comments:
If the state finds enough evidence of the modern definition of abuse (not the FLDS def. of abuse) with these children, then the mothers should not have contact with them until the state feels assured the Mothers will not put them in danger of more abuse. Therefore, if the breastfeeding relationship is so important to the Moms, they should ask their husband to buy them a medical grade breast pump to maintain their milk supply until they are with their children again. The Men have cell phones, so certain tech items surely are allowed on the compound. Let's hope these women can have some modern things too. I fear they won't though.
Are you aware of any case where CPS has allowed breastfeeding mothers to pump and that milk is given to their babies in foster care?
I am aware of only cases where CPS has flatly refused any such accommodation.
And while FLDS mothers can use pumps to try to keep up their supply (not every body takes kindly to a pump, and they are never as efficient as babies at getting the milk out) the babies, who we're supposedly truly concerned about, are the ones suffering from a cold turkey diet change to a food shown to be inferior to their normal diet.
And nobody, not even the state's own witnesses, testified that the babies were in danger of the legal definition of abuse. The state psychiatrist even testified that the babies would be worse off without their mothers.
Incidentally, if you look at the photographs from the ranch, you see very modern, user friendly kitchens, and the women had cell phones, too, until CPS took them away.
yes, being involved in a state case with cps must be horrible for everyone involved. I see that you know more about this situation than I do.
I was just referring to the fact at hand, the mothers are away from their children, if they want to keep nursing, they can pump. I didn't mean they would get to send that expressed milk over to their babies, I just meant their supply could possibly be kept up. Pumping is still better than just giving up on nursing while they attempt to comply with the state.
I'm not here to discuss whether the raid should have happened nor did I study up on cps cases. The reality is these moms don't have their kids. I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else for implying the women aren't allowed technology . I should have kept my comments to the simple facts, if you have no baby to nurse from you for whatever reason, keep pumping (dump or freeze). It's still better than giving up while you wait for the kids to be returned. I nursed both of my girls for almost two years each and under some difficult circumstances, though nothing like this. I do worry about the babies involved here, I think what I was trying to do was give the nursing moms some power in this situation. If they can't nurse, try to keep their supply up so when the children are returned, they can nurse again. I think everyone hopes the state is wrong and more facts come out to support the return of the children to their mothers upon which nursing will resume ( I am usually an optimist and I believe it will!!).
The frustrating thing here is that there are only five minor girls who are pregnant. There are 400+ children taken from over a hundred mothers. How many mothers are actually guilty of any kind of abuse, but are suffering from guilt by association? The state is arguing two forms of abuse exist within this community, sexual abuse through the marriages of underage women (Texas itself allows underage marriages, btw, and has a high rate of underage pregnancies), and the "systemic" abuse/neglect that Texas believes is the result of the FLDS day-to-day living, belief system, and geographic isolation from the outside world. How does that justify the removal of all these mothers' children?
Is there anything that can be done about this? When I first heard of the raid, I thought, "Good." I thought the women would be leaving the FLDS community in droves. That obviously has not happened. Sarah's phone call is probably a hoax, every child has been taken, the mothers have slowly been pushed out, and now even nursing mothers will be forced to leave. Honestly, how can ANY of this be justified on such flimsy evidence? From someone who was so pro-Texas, pro-CPS, anti-FLDS in the beginning, these developments have COMPLETELY changed my opinion. I'm particularly unimpressed with the judge.
While I of course do not agree with polygamy, government actions in this situation are horrific!
How on earth can it not be in the "best interest" of these children to allow them to stay with their mothers? Is there any possibility that the mothers ABUSED them?
To yank a breastfed child from its mother is reminiscient of the Nazi treatment of Jewish mothers. What is most frightening is the fact that it appears to be open season on anyone outside of the perceived societal norm.
Arrest the men if they have had sex with underage girls. Question the children and wives, but let the children stay with their mothers for heavens sake! They have gone through enough trauma already.
Yeah, that would work.
Leave the children with the people that allowed and supported the abuse.
That makes a lot of sense.
This is Texas.
Not Arizona or Utah.
We'll protect the children, and if it offends you - too bad.
Txbluesman, I agree! How can anyone stand back and allow this to happen to these children? As a mother, don't you have instincts? These mothers hand their children over to these sick and perverted men to abuse and rape. Those mother's don't deserve their children. If I knowingly put my child in harms way, I deserve to have them taken from me.
MPB, you should get your facts straight. Texas law allows marriage for anyone above the age of 18. If you are 16 or younger, you must obtain a court order. It is not how you portrayed it..."allowed".
We have to stand up for children in this world. You all can choose to stand by and ignore these children being broken in with abuse, rape, etc. But I won't. I support the raid in Texas 100%. Finally someone is doing something unlike Utah and Arizona, who has ignored it like a giant elephant standing in the middle of the room.
That's just atrocious. Who's acting in the best interest of the children in this situation? I.M.O. nursing babies should only be separated from their mothers when the milk the mother is producing is unsafe (i.e. drug addiction).
We don't do business that way in Texas, Abbyjess.
If children are being abused, we take them from their parents until we can sort things out.
That has always included nursing infants.
If you don't want them taken, don't allow them to be abused.
That's not true. You take the children based on allegations of abuse, not necessarily findings of abuse. A finding of abuse based on a presumption/belief that the very belief system of a church or community is harmful is ridiculous and Texas is really reaching. This will come back to bite Texas and Judge Walther. Wait and see. It happened in the '53 raid and it will happen here.
Read some of the blog posts addressing the Texas violations of the rights of FLDS women & children here: http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2008/04/eldorado-roundup.html
Or on my blog here: http://pluralwife.blogspot.com/
Just wondering...
Why did some of the FLDS men refuse to the DNA test?
Don't they want their children back?
What's that? The authorities can use the DNA to prove Sexual Assault of a Child?
Well, if they are fit parents, surely they wouldn't have illegally married underage girls and then raped them....
Ooops.
As a huge advocate for breastfeeding, I am heartsick over the thought of a baby or toddler being ripped from it's mother's arms and forced to wean from her breast with little or no understanding of what it is being 'punished' for. Let alone for the women who most likely are only guilty of belonging to a society that is different than ours.
Child molestation, teenage pregnancies and rape occur in every society on the planet...how can they punish all of these families for the sins of a few?
This is awful! As a nursing mom, I can't imagine the suffering the babies will go through. A baby who has never taken a bottle will have such a hard time! And by the way txbluesman, I'm a Texan, a very conservative one at that, and I don't appreciate you speaking for the whole state. Plenty of Texans do not agree with this mass raid. Every child should have an individual hearing, BEFORE they go to foster care. Many nursing relationships will have ended over this, and breastmilk is the best nutrition for a baby. Formula isn't even second according the the World Health Organization, it is FOURTH!
Just wondering.... why the state of Texas prefers to leave child rapists to run free to rape another day while separating babies from their mothers and putting children in the cesspit that is Texas foster care.
Michelle, the nursing relationship does not have to end!! Everyone seems to be so frustrated over something they cannot change. The fact remains that the children are gone from their mothers! What can we deal with now? Maintaining the milk supply.
P.s. zookeeper mama, kids need to be in state custody even if the abuse is very subtle. Some parents don't do a great job. And to investigate even a suggestion of abuse, and even the suggestion of such a thing is scary for any parent I am sure, is better than to ignore it. We're not just talking about overt sexual abuse but mind control and subtle emotional abuse. It does deserve investigation. I really didn't want to have to go there, but there has to be a reason for all this.
Littlemama, You are not taking into consideration that many of these babies might not take a bottle. My little one will not. And I still feel like these children should not be taken away until abuse has been proven in their individual circumstance. The judge is treating this as one case, when it is 437 cases, each child needs his own hearing before removal. As someone who has dealt with CPS and a judge, I know first hand that they do not think logically, they just hear a cry of "wolf" and spring into action, when this action is not called for. These children can be seriously damaged by being away from their mothers for even just a few days. The phone call of the alleged abuse came from Colorado...it was phony. Yet this high and mighty judge can't admit her mistake. I still think an investigation needs to take place, but leave the children where they are until abuse has been prove. Innocent until proven guilty!!
My babies never took bottles either. I hear you. I also understand that false accusations can be made. But the fact is still that these children are not with their moms. I do hope that babies who don't normally take bottles will receive the nutrition they need and take a bottle while they have to. so sorry, Michelle, that you had to deal with CPS. You're right, CPS does act first and ask later. False accusations are never good. So sorry you had to go through that. But, please know that I do understand many many aspects of how difficult it can be to maintain a nursing relationship.Again, I am so sorry for the trauma you went through. Just trying to deal with he realities.
Littlemamma, I do hope you do not feel like I was taking my frustrations out on you. I think we are all just so concerned about the welfare of these children (breastfed or not). I'm glad that you are such a great supporter of breastfeeding, I do hope some of these moms are able to continue their breastfeeding relationship when they are reunited with their children.
I too was coming at this from the stand point that neither of my babies ever took a bottle. They refused in fact. And the thought, as a mother, of my child crying and hungry, scared and wondering where his mother is and why she isn't feeding him just breaks my heart.
txbluesman...I see that you are a proud Texas cowboy, and generally I would agree with you. But if someone marched into your town and took all your children because of accusations of a few of the men in your town, would you think that was right?? And why the hell didn't they take all the men! If they are the predators, punish them, not the children!
I think there's been some productive conversation on here. I wish everyone the very best in their lives. I am a very militant breastfeeding advocate and I, myself, cannot believe I would be on the side of cps versus a nursing mom. I just deep in my gut know that these children are being deprived of something (not MTV, really!) and disciplined in a way that fits their culture, but is illegal in the mainstream US. Peace to you all. I will keep praying that once the Men who fathered these taken children are identified, or claim their children, justice is done and the Moms and kids are reunited in a safe place.
Michelle said
And by the way txbluesman, I'm a Texan, a very conservative one at that, and I don't appreciate you speaking for the whole state.
I never claimed to be speaking for the whole state. I am speaking for myself. I have absolutely no problem with differing opinions about how Texas should handle this - from Texans, but I do not care for people from outside Texas trying to tell us how to run our state's business when they can't even control the issue in their state.
Plenty of Texans do not agree with this mass raid. Every child should have an individual hearing, BEFORE they go to foster care.
Unfortunately, that is not the way the law reads. This was an Emergency Removal under Subchapter B, Chapter 262, Texas Family Code. The children were removed in accordance with a court order, and the law then mandates a hearing within 14 days, which was provided. All of the children will get individual hearings in accordance with Chapter 263.
As a citizen of Texas, if you disagree with how the law is written, you should contact your state representative and state senator to try and get them to change the law - now would be the right time, as the legislature meets this coming January.
Good hell you people are sick!!!! You need to give the children back. The best place for those children are with their mothers. If you has a brain in your head you would see that. But I do understand that some people are lacking the brains. I think that the mothers of those children should SUE THE STATE OF TEXAS 1million dollors per child and 2 million for each mother.
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