Shem's legal fees
Former FLDS member Shem Fischer won a default judgement years ago against the Corporation of the President of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the Corporation of the Presiding Bishop of the FLDS Church and Warren S. Jeffs. Those entities were ordered to pay him $330,000.
Now they owe him attorneys fees, too. U.S. District Judge Ted Stewart awarded Shem $35,618.76 last week.
In 2002, Shem claimed Forestwood Inc., a wood products company in Hildale that was started by his father Erwin, fired him after he protested the firing of another worker who left the church. His lawsuit also alleged the firm refused to rehire him because he, too, later left the FLDS faith. He has waged a lengthy court battle with the company, now overseen by another brother.
A federal court had tossed the lawsuit, but earlier this year the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver reinstated part of Shem's lawsuit against Forestwood.
The 10th Circuit Court ruled the lower court had improperly prevented taped conversations provided by Shem to back his claims of religious discrimination. It also ruled that Shem failed to prove he was fired, rather than voluntarily resigning, from the company.
According to an Associated Press story, on the tapes Erwin Fischer tells Shem: ''If you're suing and fighting Uncle Rulon and wanting to work for his company at the same time, this won't work." The reference is to Rulon T. Jeffs, Warren's father and former sect president.
You may remember that this summer Dan Fischer, one of Shem's brothers, spoke about their father during his appearance before the Senate Judiciary Committee.
Now they owe him attorneys fees, too. U.S. District Judge Ted Stewart awarded Shem $35,618.76 last week.
In 2002, Shem claimed Forestwood Inc., a wood products company in Hildale that was started by his father Erwin, fired him after he protested the firing of another worker who left the church. His lawsuit also alleged the firm refused to rehire him because he, too, later left the FLDS faith. He has waged a lengthy court battle with the company, now overseen by another brother.
A federal court had tossed the lawsuit, but earlier this year the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver reinstated part of Shem's lawsuit against Forestwood.
The 10th Circuit Court ruled the lower court had improperly prevented taped conversations provided by Shem to back his claims of religious discrimination. It also ruled that Shem failed to prove he was fired, rather than voluntarily resigning, from the company.
According to an Associated Press story, on the tapes Erwin Fischer tells Shem: ''If you're suing and fighting Uncle Rulon and wanting to work for his company at the same time, this won't work." The reference is to Rulon T. Jeffs, Warren's father and former sect president.
You may remember that this summer Dan Fischer, one of Shem's brothers, spoke about their father during his appearance before the Senate Judiciary Committee.
80 Comments:
Fokes, what stems from Shem's fees, is the abuse of the stem in his pants. Now, one Al Holm has objected to that fact, and my reference to the fact often in my posts. Here is his objection, and my reply:
On Wed, 9/24/08, Al Holm
I do appreciate your comment, for it is nice to hear that you and I both still do love Uncle Warren. I love him much more than I ever did my wife. Yet I do admit to the struggles of isolation, as I am sure you feel as well, (calling yourself "onthestreet" is a dead giveaway. :) But dear sir, your frequent mentioning of the procreational parts of women in your comments, and justifying abuse that never happened, I will not tolerate, and I care not how you justify them.
I have never wished ill will toward you, none in the slightest. But I will not ever support you when you write the things you do toward women. I have seen your posts for over two years and they have that exact theme throughout. I do hope that you can stop referring to sexual organs, and when that day comes I will support your comments more in general.
By the way, my Uncle Leonard Barlow asked me who you were, and when I told him he said "That is not the Sheryl Zitting I knew, he talks horrible" He knew you well also, as he was in Viet Nam too. If you would like I can give you his email address.
I do not mean to be rebuking my elders, I mean to help you realize that you CAN be a help for good when you stay away from sexual references, like the one in the last sentence below
Heaven bless,
Al Holm
___________________________________
From Street:
My little man,
It is the enemy of the prophet accusing him of sexual abuse and the misuse of his sexual parts that my language attends, to rebuke the enemy of God according to their own language and accusation. So if you equate yourself in that class, with the enemies of God, then it is also an attack on you, and it will never cease until the enemies of God cease. If you never loved you wife as you should have, and then are offended also by sexual reference to that problem in men, and particularly in the enemies of the Lord, then it reveals sexual abuse on your part. Then you expose yourself also as among the enemies of God. So your claim in appreciating me falls on deaf ears. It is a lie, and I care not how you justify it. You only wish is ill will, if you cannot accept the teaching against sexual abuse, and overcome the source by which offenses come, the reference to sex itself toward those who accuse the Lord's people in the same manner. Therefore, who needs your kind of "support", for the devil is in it.
Leonard is a good man, as I remember him, and especially if he has any more intelligence than you. Yes, you mean to rebuke the elders. That is all you know how to do, Judas like. Don't bother any more offers of "favor". Judas did not do Christ and favors. Quite the opposite. You CAN be a help for good when you overcome you sexual offenses.
Street
"It must needs be that offenses come, but woe to them by whom they come" (Matt.18:7).
It is a sex offender who opposed any religious leader for casting out men for sexual offense, which is the foundation of all other offense. Yesod is the foundation on the Tree of Life, and this is the sexual part of man. So all offense stems from that stem, and there is no hiding from it.
Street
To read the court's decision, here is a link to the document.
http://www.ca10.uscourts.gov/opinions/06/06-4121.pdf
I see no discussion in this decision about sex of any kind.
The FLDS ask for religious tolerance under the law and then deny it to others.
It's interesting to watch the smack down between Pliggy and Street but I'm left wondering if they couldn't find a better place to air their grievances.
Freud would have a great time with this comment by Pliggy:
"you and I both love Uncle Warren, I love him much more than I ever did my wife."
onthestreet..
could you please go somewhere else to talk like that...maybe on the street where people might appreciate your language. I don't see one thing in this story to bring up that kind of language nor comments. Lets stick to the story.
Ron quoted Pliggy as saying:
"you and I both love Uncle Warren, I love him much more than I ever did my wife."
I was nonplussed by that statement as well. People see and react to different things in this situation. I know that for me the issue that has got my attention has to do with using a 'focus on family' talk, while actually disrupting it as needed, and using religion to disguise meaningful, but lower order activities.
Silver.. Ron...
Its the love for Priesthood, not the same love you have for a wife. Its something you can't understand unless you are a part of it. Don't worry, its not like a gay thing.
Wow, worse than I thought, Shirly
Putting up private emails in a public place about me is not cool, but dragging someone else into it only proves the depth of your depravity.
You defend virtue as well as Shem defends justice.
And as far as love, I cannot teach it to those who do not know what it is.
Well, you guys are doing an excellent job @ trying to get the comments shut off again. I wouldn't be a bit bothered to see OTS's stuff never on any boards again.
Brooke, can't we moderate so that certain people can't preach here?
Rose,
I think what you said is true, it is difficult to understand that relationship if one is not a part of the community around it. I can understand the love of G-d being stronger and deeper and different in every way than the love of any human being in one's life. But experiencing that quality of love for a Prophet? No that is not part of my experience. And developing an understanding for it is as close as I want it to be.
The Prophet, currently Warren Jeffs, is the top of the Priesthood chain, on earth....God speaks through him...lets His will be known through him....it's not love for Warren Jeffs the man...it's love for Warren Jeffs the Prophet/Priest that pliggy talks about...and OTS knows exactly what pliggy was referring to....
Priesthood, and where you are in your priesthood...and who is attached to you through your priesthood ...i.e. wife/wives and children, is a major determinent in where you enter heaven....on how much additional "work" you have in store before you get to the Celestial Kingdom....
Everything you do in this life has to do with priesthood and it's connectivity to others...
And, the Prophet is the embodiment of that status....
I also think pliggy's statement is misworded, because I know, absolutely, he still loves his wife with all of his heart and he also loves the Prophet with the same fervor....using the past tense was an error in typing, not thinking.....
As for OTS and J.L., I would also like to see them not be allowed to post. What they post is more often offensive than it is helpful to any discussion.....
Also, Warren Jeffs was an important person in many lives before he became Prophet. When he was a teacher and principal at Alta Vista Academy, many of the students got to know him, well. And learned that he was kind, funny, very smart, and fair. Those are the descriptions I hear most often describing his days before being Prophet. So there is, for pliggy's generation, anyway, a deep and abiding love and respect for the man, as well as for the Prophet....
Despite what massmedia has portrayed, apparently Warren Jeffs had a very strong, positive impact on many lives, long before his father passed on.
Rericson, The problem with Warren Jeffs is that he kicked out so many men, including those like Dale Barlow who were well respected. He rearranged countless numbers of families, banned all social activities, and allowed the UEP to fall into the state's hands. Just look at Short Creek before Warren Jeffs and now. Since there are no secure property rights anymore, the place has gone down the tubes.
I'm sure that for those who are in Warren's good graces, life is grand, at least before the YFZ raid.
I have no idea whether ousting any given individual was fair or otherwise. It's certainly not my place to judge. What I do know is that if those who were asked to leave were without guilt, one or two might have gone, but then the entire community would have been involved in things being different if "guiltless" individuals were being regularly tossed...
Also, sometimes folks who get ousted from a group tell their story differently than what was rreal. And, the standards of behavior expected in the FLDS community are way, way different and higher than what we have in our communities....
As for placing all the blame for what you, or I as outsiders may see as wrong, on Warren Jeffs, is also wrong. In secular matters he had the advice of the other elders.
The fiscal state of the twin cities is much more to blame on the conflict of interest and self-serving interest of the judge and Wisan...
I really think that if the members of the community were as dissatisfied with Warren Jeffs as others are on their behalf, they would have acted. If they are satisfied with his leadership, it isn't our position to judge.
Giving a community the resources to protect itself and it's members from harm, and crime is one thing...but telling them how to live and what their culture and ltheir leadership should be is quite another....
This is not a community full of robotic dolts...these are bright, self-sufficient folks....quite capable of making choices....
Thanks rericson. That is a very good discription about the case. Unlike duaneh1 you seem to know what you are talking about.
By the way, Duaneh1, Dale Barlow did not get kicked out.
This post has been removed by the author.
This was in the span of 3 or so years.
How many men did Rulon and Leroy kick out during their reign? Does it compare?
yutt, Sorry I meant Dan Barlow, Mayor of CO city for 19 years.
Duaneh-
That is not an accurate list. Also you have to remember that when Winston Blackmore left, a number of families left with him. These were not men who were, as you call it, "kicked out", these folks chose to leave and follow Blackmore as their leader....
I believe that only some of those you have copied were actually excomunicated, some were asked to leave and repent...or, in more colloquiel terms, get their act together.....to put their own houses in order....
And again, I reiterate...it really is none of our business how someone elses church does it's business.....
I assure you, if the Roman Catholic Church were to publish, or otherwise make public, all who were not in good standing with the Church because of "mortal sin", it would curl your toes. But those are the tenets members agree to abide by to remain in good standing.....
reericson, I don't know how accurate the list is, the reason I posted it was to see what the FLDS members take on it was.
The correct link I sourced this from:
http://texaspolygamy.blogspot.com/2005/07/destructions.html
Your list is quite inaccurate, Duane. There are a lot of names on there of men who are still here or who are at YFZ(and other places)and in good standing. There are also a lot of people on there who left on their own. I don't have time right now to go through and point out exactly which ones are true and which ones aren't, but your list is woefully inaccurate.
That is the way that some people work. They will through out something that is incorrect and then waite to see who screams. I think that is what duaneh1 is trying to do. Duaneb has no idea what the truth is. Simmilar to what Texas is doing.
yuttelay, I sourced this from the Texas Polygamy blog, I never said the list was accurate and I am in no position to ascertain the veracity of this list nor am I making accusations. To be honest, I am glad to hear that this list is inaccurate and many of these guys are actually members in good standing.
List of Men that Warren Jeffs supposedly kicked out up until July 14 2005, according to the link below:
Sterling Harker
Dan Fischer
Ernie Jessop
Dave Harker
Alvin Harker
Louis Barlow
Dan Barlow
Truman Barlow
Roland Barlow
Thomas Barlow
Art Barlow
Doug Cooke
Bill Knudson
Jethro Barlow
Alma Barlow
Howard Meldrum
Lloyd Wall
Fred Lindsey
Ross Chatwin
Guy Draper
Blaine Jeffs
Winston Blackmore
Albert Council
Art Blackmore
John Roy Jessop
Leon Jessop
John Johnson
Dell Barlow
Joe C Jessop
Edwin Barlow
Royal Cooke
Bill Shapley
Allen Steed
Nephi Steed
Leroy Jeffs
Sidney Barlow
Alex Barlow
Jed Barlow
Carson Barlow
Nephi Barlow
Peter Barlow
Preston A Barlow
Roland Barlow
Mace Church
David Cook
Rollie Cooke
Moroni Draper
Nephi Draper
Erwin Fischer
Don Holm
Richard Holm
James Dockstader
David Jeffs
Wallace Jeffs
Beck Jessop
Jerry Jessop Jr
Garth Jessop
Hyrum Jessop
Val Jessop
Charles Johnson
Spencer Johnson
Frank Johnson
Gary Johnson
Philip Mackert
Carl Richter
Wayland Wyler
Ron Robock
Dan Wayman
Dale Wight
isaac Wyler
Jarred Barlow
Joseph Blackmore
Arthur Barlow
Larry Steed
Marvin Wyler
Nephi Jeffs
William Steed
Joseph Steed
Richard Steed
R Jay L & Cathy Jessop
David Draper
matt Draper
Ezra Draper
Todd Nielsen
Dan Woodruff
Lee Bistline Sr.
Daniel Bistline
Jason Bistline
Curtis Barlow
Doug Barlow Jr.
Rulon(Pud)Jessop
Marce Jessop
Ashley Jessop
Joseph Dutson
Austin Bistline
Warren Johnson (Johns)
Lester Johnson
Oscar Jessop
Kevin Jessop
Roy Cooke
Charlie Cooke
Ron Rohbock
John Rohbock
Josh Johnson
Don Carlos Johnson
Mark Copeland
This is a list of the men whose women stood with them
Jethro Barlow
Art Blackmore
Winston Blackmore
JL Jessop
Royal Cooke
Guy Draper
Garth Jessop
Marce Jessop
Howard Meldrum(one wife)
Bill Knudson
Rolland Cooke
Issac Wyler (although she left him later, she didnt return to CC)
Carl Richter
Spencer Johnson
Evan Johnson
Jed Barlow
Mace Church
Lloyd Wall(one wife)
Ezera Draper (I think she left him later, as well)
Lester Johnson
Mark Copeland
Robert Richter
Phil Mackert Sr (she joined him later, but that still counts!)
http://texaspolygamy.blogspot.com/2005/07/destructions.html
1:40 PM
corrected link
texaspolygamy.blogspot.com/2005/07/destructions.html
duaneh1 I do apologize. should never be quick to condem another.
Brian Mackert has written a book thats coming out, called "Illegitimate".
The first FLDS male to write a book about living in Polygamy.
The true facts behind the hype about this polygamous cult and its effect on children The specific effect of the FLDS splinter group on young boys, and how they are systematically forced out of their communities to make room for "elite" men to have multiple wives.
His own personal story of self-destruction - the anger, rage and hopelessness he felt regarding his own future that led him down a path of self destruction with drugs and alcohol, to eventually plotting his own father's murder.
The process of healing and forgiveness - Brian shares his powerful journey of healing and forgiveness.
Comes out October 1, 2008
SEX DESTROYS
Man must come to realize that the very act of sex, and even the very thought of partaking of the forbidden fruit (Matt.5:28), to “seize upon blessings unlawfully”, is itself the foundation of all destructive forces upon the earth, upon man and all creation. How so? In the Garden of Eden, after the Creation of all things, was the Tree of Life, and the Yesod fruit is the foundation of all creation, see? “There was not FOUND (as in foundation) a help mate for Adam” (Genesis 2:20). There it is. This pertains to the relation of the sexes, does it not?
There are ten kinds of fruit on the Tree, and Yesod is the ninth plane of creative or destructive vibration. Then there is an eleventh fruit, consisting of Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, the defiling and destroying of Beriatric Yesod, the foundation of the family and the world. Is it not recognized the world over that the family is the FOUNDATION of society? Certainly. So defile that by sexual activity, and you destroy society itself, as witnessed by the destruction of every empire since Adam, and the events now transpiring in America, the Land of the original Zion before the flood.
From the above, it can be seen by the intellect that sex destroys. It is the foundation of all destructive forces, including war, famine, pestilence, earthquake, economic collapse, everything that destroys. This can even be proven scientifically for the benefit of many who lack the intellect, because sexual activity precipitates into these destructive events, into destructive acts of man and of God, according to the mathematical laws of nature, particularly the Dyad, for it takes two to tangle, and the Ennead or horizon foundation or seed of all events.
It stems from an Egyptian myth, which proceeded from Eden: “Pharaoh came forth from between the THIGHS of the divine Nine”. Do you see it? Pharaoh represents power (destructive forces), which came forth from what? Thighs. By the very Word, all things were and are created, including all destructive forces, and word precipitates thought, doesn’t’ it? Because of the subtle and creative nature of vibrations within nature, if the thought is immoral, it is destructive, for anything that doesn’t accord with the essence or moral of a thing, destroys it, and therefore the forces of nature are activated.
“The Ennead flows around the other numbers within the Decad (of the Tree of Life) like an ocean” (Nichomachus of Gerasa), so you cannot escape it. The combined patterns of the complementary pairs form unique arrangements or events. If they are not complimentary, they destroy. “The weird sisters hand in hand, posters of the sea and land, thus do go about, about, thrice to thine, and thrice to mine, and thrice again to make up nine” (William Shakespear). A weird sister is an immoral woman, and “who can find a virtuous women? For her price is far above rubies” (Proverbs 31:10).
Nine is near the completion of creation, mathematically, and comprises the sixth day of creation, and the tenth is the event itself. So the ninth plane of vibration, the sexual state of man, and especially the combination of millions of such men, lead directly into the creative or destructive events that transpire in the world. Nine rings comprise the centriole of the human cell, see? There is a process in all anatomy, physiology, geology, astronomy, and all the sciences, called the Enneagram Process, which Gurdjieff claimed to have learned in an ancient monastery in Central Asia. It is a simple way of looking at whole events as an outer sequence with hidden inner connections.
The vibrations and creations of the ennead plane, the ninth dimension of the Tree (the groin), leads directly to the creation of the manifest world, and the manifesting of creative or destructive events, like the seed of a man creates a baby. Thus, it is proven scientifically that sex destroys health, peace, careers, economies, nations, and empires, directly, from the very day that the bastardly act is committed, if it is not immaculate but defiled.
How else do we know this? God Himself says so: “For IN THAT DAY that thou partakest of this forbidden fruit, thou SHALT SURELY DIE (Gen.2:17, 3:3), and all that pertains unto you: your health, your peace, your family, your career, your economy, your nation, all is swept away beginning that very day, because you assault God Himself. Lust is “sensual and devilish” (James 3:15), and therefore a direct assault upon God Himself. Therefore, you do battle with God, and after this battle which is now underway with the terrorism, the storms, the economy, these are just the beginnings of the Great Tribulation which has now begun, and what will be left? “For the great day of His wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand” (Rev.6:17)? “These are they who are redeemed from the earth, who were not defiled with women” (Rev.14:4).
Women are to be protected and exalted, NOT defiled and degraded and destroyed, like governments and churches do, and all who object to the language that spells it out and tells it like it is, that we might be incensed by the grossness of it all and come to wisdom, knowledge, and understanding (C-D-B). They are the drunken whore of Revelation (17:6), not the chivalrous knight of antiquity. Thus, “vulgarity for the vulgar, and refinement for the refined”. Women are naturally serious about their propriety, or about hiding their impropriety, as in the Garden of Eden, in order to remain acceptable to society, whether they be genuine or fake. But it takes unification with a god, a prophet, a pure man, to redeem them (Rev.14:4), what the ancient Jews called Yechudim, which Christ exemplified when a whore was about to be stoned (John 8:10).
Yechudim is one of the keys and mysteries of godliness, in overcoming the body, by not contemplating the physical world, but the name and image of God, in a continual mindfulness, in a very structured way, which reverts again to the scientific and mathematical laws of nature and of the cosmos, which themselves are unified in one principle and science, as all creation is unified. This relates to the theory of Unified Fields, which is the work and doctrine of the FLDS Church.
Street
Bubbly Brook,
I have a dozen posts relevant to the blog today, and thousands of posts if there’s any interest. My posts are sometimes not directly relevant to the topic of a thread, which I always wish to maintain in its purity. What do you think about creating a thread for me once a week, so people can choose to receive my posts together if they want, without having to wade through all the threads, which they often object to doing. A weekly thread would always give me a place to post on the home page, unless it’s more desirable that I join the party in every thread.
Either way. It doesn’t matter to me. Just a suggestion. I’d still reply to some of the posters on other threads, but most of my posting could be in a separate thread if you’d like. Of course, it’s up to me, not you. Just kidding.
Street
Why don't you just start your own blog?
That way, people who want to follow what you have to say will come to your very own personal blog, where you can tackle any subject you want. And those who don't care what you have to say? They won't visit.
"Illegitimate"
Brian Mackert
OH BOY!
Another "I am a victim" book that tells the "inside story" on all 10,000 members, while it helps to make that "victim" money.
Kdp
I doubt he is going to make lots of money on his book. He has a new occupation now.
If you dont want to read it, dont. He certainly doesnt make excuses for his addictions after he was kicked out.
Marrie and street: talk to the hand.
Brian, like many on duanes list, was not asked out. Some never were FLDS, some never were out, and some left on their own. AND there are some who were asked out that are NOT on that list. (hint)
See any Hammon's or Timpson's? There was a slew in Leroy S Johnson day.
And I find it rather strange that people think it is their duty or responsibility to decide who should or should not be a part of a group that they have no business with. Mere hatred for the whole group and the leaders, that is all
FOLLOWUP To Marrie & Ron
New Indictments Thread
MARRIE Said (4:17 PM)
People of all faiths attend Southern Methodist University Law school, its one of the Best in the Country.
Shes a Judge! Im sure there are people who attend Universities in Utah who arent mormon either.
RON Said (7:11 PM)
I'm sorry but it just shows profound ignorance to say because Judge Walther attended Southern Methodist University Law School that she got her legal training from the Methodist Church.
STREET's Reply:
Not only do Methodist law students pick up the Methodist twist of the law, they also become obligated through what the legal profession calls “professional favors”, putting Judge WalTHers in a serious conflict of interest, and not just potentially. Professional favors are a given, regardless of constitutional law regarding the case itself.
Indeed, her honor has been proven dishonorable, even unlawful and criminal in the treatment of the case, and proven toxic to good law and rules of procedure as applied to the defense, which lead to the rebuke of the higher courts. So recusal is a given, since conflict of interest is a given, seeing the ties that exist between this judge and the Methodist Church through their university law school with which Walthers is closely tied, having gotten her degree there, and the climate of profession favors that exists against any who challenge them, as the Mormons have done in the revelation of their God that “none of these other churches are right, but are an abomination before the Lord”.
The profession is well aware of the climate of "Professional Favors", and how it often throws judicial conduct and the following of the law and the rules of procedure in the toilet to reach a predetermined result.
HUMONGOUS ASS IN BATTLE:
(The latter-day Beast of Revelation is one big ass momma, destroying whole economies.
Pliggy said (3:37 PM)
Marrie and street: talk to the hand.
REPLY: I did already, and this is what my hand was told to do. I saw this humongous lady, and in self-defense I had to slap her gigantic hiney just to get past it. I know people (and nations) come in all shapes and sizes, but this humongous ass was two-yards wide. I mean, I couldn’t get around it, so I had to say something drastic.
Says I: “Maam, your ass is poking out too far”. Well, with one flick of her butt, she swung that thing around and slammed me right to the ground. Tweetie birds started singing to me. Half-dazed, I looked up at that broad side of a barn, and managed to squeak out some kind of a reply when I came to:
“Holy moly, Molly, all I said was it was too big”. And she says: “Yes, and all I did was prove your point”. Well, finally I crawled to my feet and dusted myself off, and then I took a wide detour to the left. Butt…as I did, I gave her a sheepish grin as I slammed her butt real hard, and then I ran like hell. She couldn’t stop laughing. There Pliggy, I talked with the hand.
Once I gained a furlong, which was a good day’s trip around her big butt, I waved and she waved back still laughing, with her blubber bouncing up and down like a walrus. As she waved that giant hand, it caused the wind to blow. Then as she walked away, even the earth shook.
I’d hate to lay in bed with a thing like that, or be in bed with a nation like that, like sleeping with the devil. I’d be less than a worm under that giant blob of a worman. That’s just not a piece of ass, it’s all ass. Talk about tribulation. I can only imagine that she eats with a shovel, and drinks from a bucket, like the government setting it up so they can seize of banks and whole economies in one big slurp.
Back to big momma. She measured by the acre and weighed by the ton. I mean, there’d be no getting around her on the football field. You'd just have to treat her like bumper cars at the fair. Maybe our armed forces could raise such women as battering rams, or use them like elephants charging into battle. And with a strict diet of beans and buckets of lard, whenever artillery is needed, just have them turn around and point their butts at the enemy: KABOOM!!! If you didn't kill them with the blast, you'd choke them with toxic shit.
I can just see the headlines:
“Battle of the Bulge Wins the Battle, but Loses the War”. She’d soon be dead from the unhealthy mass, like the Beast of Revelation, the Antichrist empire of these last days seizing economies and committing genocide, causing untold misery and death in one big slurp, until God Himself sends His Hosts against them. This is the beginning of the final tribulation and the winding-up scene. All their blubber will not save them.
Street
Pliggy, Thanks for clearing that up. I'm glad to hear that the numbers may be exaggerated. Yes, I notice your name was not on that list. Churches excommunicate members all the time but I know of no other religious sect that strips men of their wives and children and encourages them to marry a more worthy member in good standing. I do not think this practice should be made illegal but IMO I think it is immoral, except perhaps, if the man has physically or sexually abused members of his family or committed other heinous crimes.
I never said brian mackert was kicked out. I said he wrote a book about being a member.
Pliggy it is my understanding in FLDS the priesthood gets special goodies that others dont get. How could warren jeffs kick anyone out, when he was impregnating underage girls himself?
Am I the only one who thinks that onthestreet is having full blown hallucinations and typing at the same time? You know, there are meds now that the nice doctors can give you that will make those nasty visions go away.
I noticed that to Betty, but im trying to ignore his comments.
Street: If you only knew how many good people you drive away from a conversation. I ignore you, as I do Marrie, for the most part.
Duane,
I do understand that from the outside you cannot understand, and that comes from your own world view. In most Bible following religions a man cannot put away his wife, except in the case of adultery (or worse). While this is true, the same stipulation is not on the wife. MANY a wife is CONNED into believing this and stay's in an a bad marriage based on this wrong headed religious belief. Any man who does not live his religion strictly, a wife is not obligated to follow, she can leave the marriage if he is not worthy, and seek a husband who is.
You have to take into consideration how the FLDS families are formed in the first place, that girls marry based on the trust they have in God and their religious leaders, and that a man must be worthy of the highest heaven in order for him to keep his wife after death. The Ten Commandments are very important, as is living as the Doctrine and Covenants teaches (D&C 20, 21, 121, 132 and all the rest). Also a man can lose his wife due to unworthiness, and then she re-marry, and he become worthy and marry another later. There is no such thing as "no fault" divorce, but the requirements are higher for a man, as it should be. That is why there are more women than men in the FLDS, AND in the highest heaven.
This is how we believe. I can quote many a religious leader, Brigham Young and John Taylor mostly, and many a scripture, but I found out long ago that just saying it plain is better understood as most people skip over the quotes.
Pliggy it is my understanding in FLDS the priesthood gets special goodies that others dont get.
Marrie, in Mormon teachings, all adult males are considered "the priesthood".
Pliggy said:
"I can quote many a religious leader, Brigham Young and John Taylor mostly, and many a scripture, but I found out long ago that just saying it plain is better understood as most people skip over the quotes."
That is true, at least for me. Ultimately, knowing the scriptures is necessary for understanding. But my interest at the moment is in having some sense of how the laity among fundamentalist Mormons understand their culture. So, from me to you, thank you for the information.
lucille:
"special goodies"
Ha ha ha ha!
Did she say something about being a "goodie" herself? ewwww
Silver,
I do owe you an apology for my condescending remark about your presumptions about polygamy being more "worthy" than my presumptions about your presumptions.
duaneh1 said (7:07 PM):
Pliggy, Thanks for clearing that up. I'm glad to hear that the numbers may be exaggerated. Yes, I notice your name was not on that list. Churches excommunicate members all the time but I know of no other religious sect that strips men of their wives and children and encourages them to marry a more worthy member in good standing. I do not think this practice should be made illegal but IMO I think it is immoral, except perhaps, if the man has physically or sexually abused members of his family or committed other heinous crimes.
Well duaneh, you just do not have the status and correctness of Christ and His FLDS people(Matt.10:34-41):
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
40He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
41He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward;
marrie said (7:33 PM):
I never said brian mackert was kicked out. I said he wrote a book about being a member.
Pliggy it is my understanding in FLDS the priesthood gets special goodies that others dont get. How could warren jeffs kick anyone out, when he was impregnating underage girls himself?
REPLY: Little girl, giving life is not the crime. Delaying it is the crime (Exodus 22:29, Psalm 1:3, John 15:2, 16). And it is HOW to plant the seed. Do you use a plow? Now, you do as the gods, immaculate, (touching not the fruit: Gen.2:17, 3:3), and in a deep sleep (Gen.2:21), and while overshadowed (Luke 1:35). You just know so very little, little girl, as being corrupt assume that all the world is corrupt. What you think is what you are.
Street
Pliggy said (7:20 AM):
Street: If you only knew how many good people you drive away from a conversation. I ignore you, as I do Marrie, for the most part.
REPLY: Allen, do we seek the popularity of the world, apostate Mormon style, or the sifting and driving of the Holy Spirit, even the strong language of Christ. Not one word of any of my posts is unbiblical, not one. It’s right there in your Bible, so you hate God’s Word, see, and seek to retain the world, being of the world.
Street
Pliggy said (7:20 AM):
This is how we believe. I can quote many a religious leader, Brigham Young and John Taylor mostly, and many a scripture, but I found out long ago that just saying it plain is better understood as most people skip over the quotes.
REPLY: What! YOU, better than Christ, or God? God and His Christ are more plain than any man. You CANNOT best them, my little man. Again, here you are, seeking to please man instead of God.
Shirl Zitting,
So... why do you post? You certainly do not do it to help God, or the FLDS people, or to bless or help anyone. You use scripture to justify your filthy mind, and then hide behind it as if you are the Emperor with clothes on.
If you represented the FLDS I would want to raid them, and take the children away too. You will not see good people ever agreeing with your filth. Not ever.
A follow-up to my post on 8:46 PM
Providing websites for further info:
SEX DESTROYS (Websites):
Wisdom | Reuniting: The consistency with which biological sex destroys peace of mind is the reason most spiritual seekers have concluded that sexual desire contributes to…
www.reuniting.info/wisdom
freedigitalcontent.com – Sex: And like any addiction the compulsion for sex destroys lives and relationships. In Sex discover how the addiction starts and what can be done about it? ...
freedigitalcontent.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=76&Itemid=44
Sexual Happiness in Marriage: A Christian Interpretation of Sexual ... - Google Books Result by Herbert J. Miles - 1987 - Religion - 208 pages
Sex DESTROYS when it operates outside of the creative plan of marriage. "If a tree is healthy, the rain and sunshine will make it grow. ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=0310292212...
America's War on Sex: The Attack on Law, Lust and Liberty - Google Books Result by Marty Klein, Nadine Strossen - 2006 - History - 212 pages
"Look at how sex ruined me" promises a peek under someone's dress, as well as the "proof" that sex destroys us. Throw in some divine revelation, ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=027598785X...
Oh, and about "little man"...
oh nevermind Mr 5'2" 110 pounder...
You and gadget would be a perfect fit.
(Oops, now I am arranging marriages LOL)
"Well, when I was a kid I'd take a trip every summer down the Mississip. To visit my granny in her antebellum world
"I'd run barefooted all day long climbin' trees free as a song
And one day I happened to catch myself a squirrel
"Well, I stuffed him down in an old shoe box, punched a couple of holes in the top. And when Sunday came I snuck him into Church
"I was sittin' way back in the very last pew showin' him to my good buddy Hugh When that squirrel got loose and went totally berserk
"Well, what happened next is hard to tell. Some thought it was heaven others thought it was hell
But the fact that something was among us was plain to see
"As the choir sang "I Surrender All" the squirrel ran up Sherl Zittings" coveralls. Sherl leaped to his feet and said, "Somethin's got a hold on me", Yeow!
"Well, Sherl hit the aisles dancin' and screamin' Some thought he had religion others thought he had a demon And Shirly thought he had a weed eater loose in his Fruit-Of-The-Looms
"He fell to his knees to plead and beg and the squirrel ran out of his britches leg Unobserved to the other side of the room
"All the way down to the amen pew where sat Sister "Gadget" better-than-you Who'd been watchin' all the commotion with sadistic glee
"But you should've seen the look in her eyes When that squirrel jumped her garters and crossed her thighs She jumped to her feet and said "Lord have mercy on me!"
"As the squirrel made laps inside her dress She began to cry and then to confess to sins that would make a sailor blush with shame
"She told of gossip and church dissension but the thing that got the most attention Was when she talked about her love life and then she started naming names!
Chorus:
"The day the squirrel went berserk
In the First Self-Righteous Church
In that sleepy little town of Pascagoula
"It was a fight for survival that broke out in revival
They were jumpin' pews and shoutin' Hallelujah!
"Well seven deacons and the pastor got saved, Twenty-five thousand dollars was raised and fifty volunteered For missions in the Congo on the spot
"Even without an invitation there were at least five hundred rededications And we all got baptized whether we needed it or not
"Now you've heard the bible story I guess How he parted the waters for Moses to pass. Oh the miracles God has wrought in this old world
"But the one I'll remember 'til my dyin' day Is how he put that Church back on the narrow way
With a half crazed Mississippi squirrel
Chorus:
"The day the squirrel went berserk
In the First Self-Righteous Church
In the sleepy little town of Pascagoula
It was a fight for survival that broke out in revival
They was jumpin' pews and shoutin' Hallelujah"
-Ray Stevens
Plig (LOL)
Hey! YOU, talking like that? Maybe on the blogs, OH BLOG! But in CHURCH? That kind of language in church!
You've been preaching up a storm against that since you started blogging, and now you join in sending squirrels up peoples' pants as weed-eaters, flipping off womens' garters, and who knows what else you have been up to, you nasty little boy!!!
Or was you just preaching from "The First Self-Righteous Church", like you said in the first stansa of the Chorus?
I guess you're finally learning that language can be fun, but it's only nasty in nasty little minds, yes?
Good job. Just don't blow it. Nobody likes that kinda job.
Be careful Shirly
"Santa Clause is watching you!"
Hey Street, call my hotline we can help ya
(603) 413-4133
Pliggy,
It's a deal. Let's just start over. I'm here to try to understand things that are not a part of my day to day life.
Did "onthestreet" get booted out of the FLDS? If so, it appears they got that one right!
You know I don't know if he got the boot, I heard a different story.
I heard he just plain left. He got offended by something at work. When he was working for Utah tool and Die.
(I hope I spelled the right die)
duaneh-
Just guessing, but I would venture that there is some sort of serious mental illness going....
Which would explain just walking away from employment or anything else...maybe some delusional stuff caused by either schizophrenia or delusions associated with a manic episode...or both.....
Much of the writing is pretty bizarre...and the hyper sexuality would be consistent with mania....
but who knows, far be it from me to be a long distance, cyber diagnostician...*smile*
I just know that much of what he writes, particularly to women from the community is very offensive.
Ther is no need for the constant reference to body parts and functions and drawing sexual inuendo from scripture....
In my admittedly very limited experience, it just isn't how members of the community talk or think....
"maybe some delusional stuff..."
You hit it right on the head. That's what happened. See, you are inspired.
*Smile*
rose, you make me smile...actually, laugh!
hope you're having a good day!
That's a BIG "ditto" to you to! Thanks, I am having a great day. (I'll write you later.)
Well, this "onethestreet" character has some serious issues or something, if he did get booted out, I would say he deserved it. Actually, he probably needs help. Pliggy said something earlier about Zitting serving in Vietnam, could that have something to do with it? Pliggy also said his uncle served in 'Nam. Pligkid mentioned that WJeffs brother is a Vietnam vet and supposedly suffered from PTS. So some pligs have defended our country in war. Pligs are currently regarded as parasitical scum and inbred trash! I have also heard they are unpatriotic traitors as well. This is kinda sad to say the least. I wonder how big a line of bullsh*t have us "gentiles" been fed...this is rather disturbing to me.
duaneh1
Yes he did serve in Vietnam war. A lot of our young men did. You are right. You "gentiles" have been fed a lot of bull. Leave it to unhappy ex members to feed you and that's what you get. If you want the true, go to the ones involved in it. rericson is a wonderful example. She has learned because she wanted to. And she hasn't relied on people like Flora, Carolyn, Laurie, Elissa, etc.
Serving in the Vietnam war was what gave him his problems. You are right. He really does need help. I don't know where is is now, but I sure hope he can get the help he needs.
Sorry onthestreet, I don't mean to say things about you, only to help them understand you a little.
Well Rose, I had heard lotsa bad stuff about plygs even before YFZ raid and was very skeptical of many of the allegations. I learned about the '53 raid just a few weeks before YFZ. From the get go, I knew the child snatching was way, way out of line. But I figured some of the stuff being said was true. However, the lies and allegations against the FLdS are much worse than I thought.
I still think at the very least, WJeffs made some very bad decisions and showed poor judgment but do realize the charges that put him prison are completely bogus.
What the FLDS really needs is a good PR firm. In this day and age it is practically a necessity.
duaneh1
I agree we do need a lot of legal help, but because we are FLDS, do you really think we can win in court? The way they put our Prophet in jail on false tales, do you really think we can win...at all?
If Texas gets away with all this, then they will come after us at the Creek. Then who is next????
Our government is soooo corrupt.
Rose, you guys are just gonna have to try and fight as hard as you can. One mother and her attorney has launched a suit against Texas CPS. I don't know for sure if you guys can win, but if these casees get to the apppeals courts you might have a chance. Many judges, at least the federal level, are apppointed for life and are not as vulnerable to whatever political winds are blowing at that moment. At the very least, the plygs don't have much to lose! Hey, you guys beat the crap out of CPS in the child custody cases so you do have a chance!
A good word for Street.
This is just the story I heard and may not be totally correct. He did go to Nam. He was involved in a helicopter crash that the army deemed unnecessary or was piolet error or something like that and although he received life threatening injures he was not eligible for a purple heart or other honors given to injured soldiers. He may have sustained some head injures. The accident was not his fault. He was just there. As for being kicked out? Some people just kick themselves out. Some just fade away, but usually they didn’t get the girl they wanted. That is what happened to his big brother Les and that is most likely what happened to him. I know that this story is not totally correct but I throw it out like a lot of you other people so as some will correct it in an effort to con others to speak up. But unlike some of you I am not looking for something to bash you over the head with.
Rose, I almost forgot, that is why the FLDS needs a good public relations firm. If they look better in the public's eye, the courts may not be so biased
duaneh1
So true... but where do you find a good one that is not biased as well?
I know not everyone is bias, but at times you wonder.