Children's cases dwindle to 101
In case you missed this story, which I wrote for today's newspaper:
Texas officials dismissed child welfare cases involving 29 children from a polygamous sect on Wednesday, the largest number dropped in a single day from the state's massive investigation.
The Texas Department of Family and Protective Services has steadily nonsuited cases since June, when 439 children were returned to their parents after two months in state custody.
The cases are closed after officials determine the children are safe or have turned 18, according to Patrick Crimmins, DFPS spokesman.
To date, the state has ended cases of 338 children from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. That leaves cases involving 101 children still pending. Among them: A 14-year-old girl who was returned to foster care in August after her mother failed to give a Texas judge assurances she would keep the girl safe.
The state took custody of the children in April after raiding the sect's Yearning For Zion Ranch because of allegations of sexual and physical abuse.
The call that initiated the raid is now believed a hoax, but investigators said they found evidence of abuse that warranted the children's removal.
Last week, the state said it has asked that 63 FLDS girls between the ages of 10 and 17 complete individual counseling sessions designed to educate them about sexual abuse and marriage laws.
A grand jury in Schleicher County has indicted nine FLDS men on charges related to underage marriages; some also face bigamy allegations. The grand jury will meet again in November.
Texas officials dismissed child welfare cases involving 29 children from a polygamous sect on Wednesday, the largest number dropped in a single day from the state's massive investigation.
The Texas Department of Family and Protective Services has steadily nonsuited cases since June, when 439 children were returned to their parents after two months in state custody.
The cases are closed after officials determine the children are safe or have turned 18, according to Patrick Crimmins, DFPS spokesman.
To date, the state has ended cases of 338 children from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. That leaves cases involving 101 children still pending. Among them: A 14-year-old girl who was returned to foster care in August after her mother failed to give a Texas judge assurances she would keep the girl safe.
The state took custody of the children in April after raiding the sect's Yearning For Zion Ranch because of allegations of sexual and physical abuse.
The call that initiated the raid is now believed a hoax, but investigators said they found evidence of abuse that warranted the children's removal.
Last week, the state said it has asked that 63 FLDS girls between the ages of 10 and 17 complete individual counseling sessions designed to educate them about sexual abuse and marriage laws.
A grand jury in Schleicher County has indicted nine FLDS men on charges related to underage marriages; some also face bigamy allegations. The grand jury will meet again in November.
50 Comments:
Last week, the state said it has asked that 63 FLDS girls between the ages of 10 and 17 complete individual counseling sessions designed to educate them about sexual abuse and marriage laws.
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Hopefully they will not agree to this, for the state will use anything they "voluntarily" submit to as an admission of some kind.
First Amendment,
Are you saying children shouldnt be taught what sexual abuse is?
"The call that initiated the raid is now believed a hoax, but investigators said they found evidence of abuse that warranted the children's removal."
Journalists who continue to cow tow to the State regarding "spin" months after the fact, will not have my complete respect. Not that having my respect is worth anything.
No, Marrie, s/he's saying it should (a) be the duty of parents, and (b), that they certainly shouldn't agree to their daughters taking classes if they don't know what the curricula are. Plenty of opportunity for trojan horses.
I would think that the parents could/should get together and write two information sheets that have all of the information that CPS wants presented in a manner that is acceptable language and phraseology for the FLDS;
1. age appropriate for teenagers and,
2. age appropriate for prepubescents.
I think this should be presented to the judge as an alternative to classes. An additional compromise could be that each child and each parent is required to sign their copy of the information sheet and return it to CPS.
To disagree with the recommendation, in it's entirety, invites Walthers to, again, disregard the position of the FLDS community all together....
My comment should have said "counseling sessions", instead of "classes".
lucille
The parents in this group dont teach their girls anything about sex at all,so how are they to learn about sex or sexual abuse.
Im sure they will let the parents know what the cirriculum is.
The parents in this group don't teach their girls anything about sex at all,so how are they to learn about sex or sexual abuse.
They do, when they think their children are ready.
I'm sure they will let the parents know what the curriculum is.
In advance, so they have the choice to approve or reject it? I highly doubt that.
They need to allow the parents to see what is included in the class in order for them to help with terminology, and they difinately should allow the girls mothers to attend if the girl desires it.
I agree, the parents should be able to view the material of the "counseling sessions" in advance and the mothers should certainly be allowed to go with the girls. I certainly checked out the material in the sex education classes my children received in school. (Although I didn't bother to attend with them.)
lucille said..."They do, when they think their children are ready".
Who are "they", lucille? The mothers who turn their underage daughters over to pedophiles? And what do "they" say to their little girls?
What did "they" say to you when it was your turn?
Laurie, they won't turn them over to your filthy imagination anytime soon, so please stop trying.
I think that any time CPS recommends something that parents object to it is wise to have an alternative to offer that fufills the need stated by CPS...
In this case, I would much prefer to offer an information sheet that is signed off on by parents and children...to go one step further, I would offer to have a female atty. present when the child and mother go over the information sheet, and the atty. could also sign off....
I don't think that you will be able to assure the informationis limited to exactly, no more, no less than the stipulation(s) in a live, one to one "counseling" session. The child could ask unanticipated questions and the next thing you know, the "counselor" is off an running with all sortsof unacceptable, extraneous information or opinions....
Again, it is unwise to object without an alternative...or several acceptable alternatives....
*****waving at pliggy*****
"waving back from Augusta GA"
Can you please find out for us how many cases are in the process of being "re-suited"? There's a story at truthwillprevail.org about a widow at YFZ who's been informed that essentially CPS wants her children back in foster care. CPS probably wants to do more intrusive SANE exams on them, and make sure they're really scarred for life -- before selling them on the adoption market. Most likely, they intend to use the data gathered during her visits, that showed "no bonding" between mothers and children (because the kids act differently from "normal" kids who scream and cry).
The heart of the issue with the girl classes is, what is justification? If any of these families has not been directly involved in an underage marriage, what is the justification?
The only answer is "they're FLDS." Thank you. That narrows it down to religion. That's discrimination. Civil rights law suit coming down the chute.
Im sure parents will see what will be taught. They saw what would be taught in parenting classes before they went.
Oh, thank you lucille. So the girls are taught about sex and sexual abuse a few hours before they are married?
z, if CPS non-suited that particular case more than 30 days ago (ie. mid-September), they're SOL on "re-filing" now. They can threaten all they want, but if they do re-file on this case & it's been more than 30 days since the non-suit, then they'll be staring down sanctions at the very least.
To my knowledge, they've threatened several mothers with "re-filing," but no one has been "re-filed" on yet.
marrie said...
First Amendment,
Are you saying children shouldnt be taught what sexual abuse is?
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I'm saying that the mothers should decline this "education," as CPS agents cannot be trusted. I would certainly not have a neighbor babysit children if that neighbor was a CPS agent. She might decide to keep them.
CPS didnt do the parenting classes either FirstAmendment! They had professonials come up with a program that fit their religious beliefs.
And I doubt CPS will do this counseling, it will mostly likely be professional counselors.
Since none of us know the specifics, how do you know that mothers wont be allowed to sit in on the counseling sessions?
At 2:02 PM, marrie said...
CPS didnt do the parenting classes either FirstAmendment! They had professonials come up with a program that fit their religious beliefs.
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I'm aware of that. But they do not have the interests of the children in mind and cannot be trusted, so everything they propose has to be examined for evidence of deceit. If it's voluntary, it should be declined. If it's mandatory, it should be fought in court.
Oh please FirstAmendment, its a damn counseling class for girls 10-17
It will be done by outside counselors.
As far as trust goes, you cant trust your next door neighbor even if you lived next door 20yrs.
If the parents dont want to teach or have thier children KNOW what sex and sexual abuse is, they can fight it.
Most abuses are committed by family members by the way.
marrie said...
Oh please FirstAmendment, its a damn counseling class for girls 10-17
It will be done by outside counselors.
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Nothing is ever as it seems with CPS. You can be sure they will be asking questions and trying to elicit the FLDS attitudes and religious teachings. And anything obtained will definitely go back to CPS and be used against them. So best not to even show up.
I hope you all realize that CPS calling it a "counseling session" is really just a spoon full o' sugar to help the med'cin go down!
They took the kids in the first place because they suspected wide spread abuse based on their religious affiliation. CPS has not changed their position one iota ... they think every FLDS child is abused. They think every FLDS girl is a future victim of sexual abuse. They have not changed their opinion despite overwhelming evidence that the abuse was the exception rather than the rule.
They want another bite at the apple. They want a chance to prove the point they refuse to let go of. Like a bunch of dogs with a bone. They're running their own agenda and the counseling sessions are a side door to continue their "investigation" without having the girls "under investigation".
What did who say to me? My turn for what? I'm 25 and single. And, BTW, not now or ever FLDS.
And I doubt CPS will do this counseling, it will mostly likely be professional counselors.
It makes little difference in practice; the "counselors" are contracted by CPS and are fulfilling their expectations.
Of course not, pliggy, filthy FLDS patriarchs give all the young virgins to old men who live and die to have sex with little girls.
Maybe you are one of them?
Laurie, Why don't you just get off it???!!!!
Didn't your mama teach you that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything, at all???
Pliggy is one of the nicest, most decent young men I have ever met....and he sure as hell doesn't deserve your constant barage of nasty, unfounded crap!!!!!
WHY DON'T YOU SPEND SOME TIME EARNING AN HONEST DOLLAR...MAYBE YOU'LL HAVE LESS TIME FOR YOUR DESPICABLE MEANNESS!!!!
Isn't Laurie the one whose been on here peddling her movie? Having the scandalous accusations about this religion turn out to be either outright false or blown way out of proportion can't be very good for business.
I guess banking on Flora didn't work out as well as hoped.
rericson....mind your own business, you miserable perv lovin' troll.
LOL
wwjd said..."Having the scandalous accusations about this religion turn out to be either outright false or blown way out of proportion can't be very good for business."
Certainly NOT good for the FLDS pedophile business, that's for sure! LOL
Certainly NOT good for the FLDS pedophile business, that's for sure! LOL
*****************
You mean the FLDS Pedophile business that never materialized despite intense scrutiny by the Texas CPS? The one that they couldn't substantiate despite every nook and cranny, scrap of paper, journal and photo album from the ranch in Texas being pawed through and dissected with a fine toothed comb by an army of state investigators?
You're just bitter because the $$$$$ you thought were within your grasp when this story broke disappeared right along with your 15 minutes of fame when your garbage proved to be untrue.
marrie said...
First Amendment,
Are you saying children shouldnt be taught what sexual abuse is?
I'll make you a deal marrie, you teach your children what you think they need to know and I'll teach mine what I think they need to know!! Fair enough?
You're probably right. She neglected to add a link to her movie. That's surely a sign something's amiss.
Oops!
http://www.bankingonheaven.com/
LOL
CHEESE SAID..."I'll make you a deal marrie, you teach your children what you think they need to know and I'll teach mine what I think they need to know!! Fair enough?"
Sounds fair enuf unless you belong to the FLDS or some other polygamous cult.
All right, where is that plyg lovin' FLDS wannabe troll hiding out....I don't have all day. I'm off to Paris shortly to spend my BOH prophets.
All right, where is that plyg lovin' FLDS wannabe troll hiding out....I don't have all day. I'm off to Paris shortly to spend my BOH prophets.
***************
I'm sure someone like Regina capable of an analytical, thoughtful approach to the FLSD really pisses you off Laurie. You're probably much more comfortable with mental infants who will eagerly lap your garbage up without thought or question.
The fact that you are reduced to name calling belies your bitterness and desperation.
I've asked before, by the way, and don't think I've gotten an answer from you ... just how much of the proceeds from your sales is going to help the "victims" you feign concern about?
I'll hold her down Regina and you can whack her like a pinata.
:oP
wwjd said..."You mean the FLDS Pedophile business that never materialized despite intense scrutiny...blah blah blah"
Lemme see...Warren Jeffs is awaiting trial in Arizona, a bunch of pervs from YFZ have been indicted, the Justice Department and FBI are involved now, Reid has called for a Federal intvestigation of ALL polygamous sects, and the ongoing investigation at YFZ will take years.
Oh yeah, and there's that polygamist uncle who raised me, the one who's fathering his own grandchildren, he'll be arrested soon.
And don't forget the Kingston clan, they're under intense scrutiny for incest and welfare fraud, and investigators haven't even gotten to the money trail that leads to YFZ Ranch and several other polygamous groups, so taxpayers will want reimbursed for all the welfare fraud. Yep, the beat goes on...
Hmm, I think the polygamy story's good for another 5 years or so, don't you guys? Add another 10 years to educate all the victims and transition everybody into mainstream (or ship them off to the Middle East). I've also got another project coming out next year...oh my, the list is endless.
When Obama's elected, I think he'll pull the plug on white slavery (polygamy) in America, kinda like Lincoln who freed the black slaves.
Wow, this country's on a roll!
Opponents have accused the FLDS of fraudulently collecting welfare benefits to the tune of millions. The theory they put forward is the church encourages its members to get all the welfare benefits they can by lying to qualify for these benefits. Bloggers supporting this assertion use this news story to prove the allegation. The story certainly proves many of the FLDS receive welfare benefits but it actually disproves those benefits are obtained fraudulently.
Curt Stewart, of the Utah Department of Workforce Services, was interviewed for the piece. Stewart said, "We've gone in there a couple of times. But we've not found anything that is above the average of any other area, as far as fraud and abuse."
There is no evidence of wide-spread welfare fraud as purported by opponents of the FLDS. While many may resent the FLDS supporting their families with the help of welfare it appears they are receiving that assistance legitimately.
Another favorite article often linked on the blogs of opponents of the FLDS describes Bleeding the Beast at great length. This article asserts other forms of welfare fraud by the FLDS.
The beast can be bled in other ways. The government allows benefits to be paid to child-care providers who are related to their charges, so one wife can be paid for taking care of another wife's children.
What the article does not report is that in order to qualify for this benefit the mother of the children receiving the care must provide proof that she is working a job or attending school outside of the home. One can logically conclude that for every wife being paid for childcare there is at least one other wife out working a job or getting an education. What this article inadvertantly proves is that the FLDS women work to help provide for their families.
That leads us to another alleged method practiced by the FLDS to 'bleed the beast' - tax evasion.
Of course, contributions to the beast's existence are anathema, so paying one's taxes is a grave sin.
Since we know at least some of the women are out earning paychecks this statement cannot be true. State and federal income taxes are taken off the top of every paycheck. With so many children to deduct the result of not filing a tax return would be not receiving a tax refund ... not avoiding paying taxes.
Wouldn't that be like giving the Beast a blood transfusion?
Being investigated or even tried is a far cry from being guilty. Welcome to America where you are innocent until proven guilty. That must really piss you off too.
Maybe we should investigate all Catholics due to the child-molestation that has gone on within that sect. I think those Catholics give money to their church too ... are any of them on welfare? We should investigate them!!!
Get your pitchforks and torches ready!!!
Oh yeah .... just curious ... how many wives does Obama's own father have?????? Obama sure seems to dig on his dad doesn't he? Are you sure he's the one to rely on to irradicate polygamy? HA-HA-HA-HA!!!
Elect Obama and we can add burkah's to prairie dresses! LOL!
Well, well, well....I do so love being missed.
Laurie, I am so glad we can count on your vote! Won't you be the surprised little darlin' when you realize that Barack actually respects the FLDS and is far more apt to ask for an investigation into the entire mess in Texas, particularly since it is probable the Justice Dept. was made aware of the goings on, before they went on....
Personally, I will be so glad to see a real change in the White House....
McCain has never been a friend to the FLDS, or any other polygamous group....I'd have thought you'd be out campaigning for him....I was sorta looking forward to knowing I would be canceling your vote!
Laurie, I'll say again, I have no doubt you had a really crappy time in your particular sect. I have no doubt it haunts you, even as an adult. What is troublesome is your asumption, even in the face of incontrovertable proof to the contrary, that all of the groups are like yours. It's just not real. And you are hurting good people when you could be helping....and no matter how awful your group was, I know you learned some good lessons, too....
You have the potential to be such a bright star...why debase yourself so? Why cause so much deliberate hurt?
What pleasure do you get knowing your words, even those on this blog, cause real people real hurt?
Perhaps your trip will allow you some relaxation and you will be refreshed and your spirit renewed and ready to be kind....
wwjd?....*waving*....hiya...nice to "see" you...it's been awhile!
oh...btw...Obama's father is long deceased...but he was polygamous....
and we have many folks wearing burkas here, now...My community has a large mosque and many faithful, including some who wear the full garb....
Laurie, you are so vindictive and hateful I really believe you will stop and nothing to make the FLDS look evil........
And, being a LeBaron, you are a murder, because ALL Lebarons are murderers, so I do believe that you are going to end up killing people once it is proven that you are a liar.
You think that just because you grew up in a HORRIBLE home with FILTHY, DISGUSTING abuses,
(which I KNOW you ENJOYED at the time,)
you think that everyone is like that, so you are pointing your finger at the FLDS whom YOU NEVER EVEN KNEW!!! NOT ONE member of the current FLDS had ever heard of you till you made your movie, which, BTW, is being PROVEN to be BULLSHIT.) do you really think that everyone is like YOUR family? And YOU?
You are showing the entire world your bare behind! Let it GO already! you are DONE! You are a LIAR! You are a CHEAT! and you NEED COUNSELING!
Take the spoils of your WAR and check yourself into a mental facility and put yourself to ease at the thought that even though you are an abuser yourself, and a murderer, by association, and a thief for STEALING the peace from thousands with your wild-eyed stories and accusations, you CAN be rehabilitated, IF you want to be!
But you gotta let it go girl! The more you stir that crap the more you stink!.........You dont need all this ugliness to control your every thought and action...Get some education, I know you were deprived, get some life rehab going....smell something good for a change!
I CARE so much! (wringing hands here)I WANT to rescue all of her victims from her!
(Crying REAL tears, now) If I can rescue just one innocent sucker....(sob).........from taking her lies into his heart and swallowing her poison, and...(blink, blink)...(looking at the TV camera) oh Laurie! Please! (pleading now)Stop killing people! Stop sexually abusing children! And stop saying that somebody else did it instead.
........................
Don't you just love how I can take all the rumors I have heard twist them and add to them and turn around and tell them like they are true? I'm good!
Learned it from YOU Laurie! I know you, I grew up with you.
Folks,I know how she thinks, and, oh believe me, I know she has killed before, and she will stop at nothing.....she should be exterminated......her and all of her people, and all the Floras an Fawnas out there......They are POISON, I tell ya!
WHO CARES if I have never met her?! I know it is truth! I READ it in the MSM! and if I didn't, then I will, just as soon as I get it together and tell the world what I know about her and her family, and her associates. And maybe even make a movie about it.......Sound familiar? Hmmmm.
imho said..."BTW, is being PROVEN to be BULLSHIT."
Hey bigmouth, name something in BANKING ON HEAVEN that "is being proven to be BULLSHIT."
rericson said..."What is troublesome is your asumption, even in the face of incontrovertable proof to the contrary, that all of the groups are like yours."
Yes, rericson, they all practice polygamy. DUH
laurie, Either you are being deliberately obtuse or you are no where nearly as bright as I had given you credit for being.
The practice of polygamy is not inherently abusive. You and I both know that.
You have locked yourself into a position with your movie and subsequent public rants and don't have the personal strength to admit that your fundamental premise could be in error.
It's too bad. At some point, when you have a few more years and a lot more experience under your belt, you will back up. Unfortunately, many innocent people will be hurt, first.
A little story for rericson who's clueless, but gets a C- for effort.
Last years Polygamy Summit had a panel of polygamist women taking audience questions. My question was as follows (ad lib)..."Male to female birthrates are 50-50, globally, so what does your polygamous sect do with their extra males?"
A spokeswomen for Principle Voices, bless her miserable heart, gave this response (ad lib) ...and btw, I have this on film...
"There's a big misconception that most polygamists have 10 or more wives, but that just isn't true. Most polygamists only have two wives."
Okay, rericson, let's give Principle Voices spokeswoman the benefit of doubt and let's plug her numbers into a polygamous community of 1000 - 500 males and 500 females.
Now let's say 250 males take 2 wives each... oops! that's all 500 women in the community!!! OH MY! OH DEAR! DUH!!!
You're welcome to use a calculator. LOL
Laurie, You know full well that life isn't all that clean, clear, and nice...doesn't come with a bow on it, either.
Your simple arithmetic doesn't account for those who leave the community by choice...which, of late, is quite a few young men....primarily for work...and some do return, later...but many meet women outside and choose to remain outside the community.
Then there are a few who die...and there are a few young women who choose to not marry until "later"....
And then there are a large number who choose to remain in monogomous relationships for many years. Some forever....
And yes, there are those who are asked to leave the community....although the number who are asked to leave forever is relatively few...some who are asked to go out and repent become angry and apostate and thereby seal their own fate, but that isn't all....
You are trying to use simple arithmetic to explain a complex situation and it just doesn't work....
And I am not saying that some abuses haven't occured....I think we all know that...but what we have concretely learned is that those instances are far, far fewer than had been expected. And we have also learned a tremendous amount about the social practices within the community, particularly those practices that relate to when sexual relations begin, That also shifts the dynamic...
One has to look at the community as a whole, with all of the variables accounted for....
Then, and only then, can one begin to get a true picture.
I think you have been terribly unfair in painting this community with such a broad brush. Much of your information is dated. Some comes from experiences in other communities...and no two are alike....
Some comes from your personal family experience...some comes from folks like Carolyn, who is very angry....and has told some horrific, self-serving lies.....
No community or group of people are perfect. I love the town I live in. Are there things I would change, if I could? Absolutely. Have I, in my own way, helped make some changes over the years? Absolutely.
If you were to ask any given FLDS woman if her community is perfect, she would tell you 'no'. If you asked her if she could suggest changes that would make things better, I'm guessing she could, but probably wouldn't. If you ask that same woman if she wants to leave...that you will help her, that she can take her children, and money won't be an issue...I'm betting you she will tell you, "thank you, but no thank you!"
You went at this looking for the bad. You had a set of theories to prove, you had a set of ideas before you interviewed your first person....except in clean science, anyone can "prove" anything if they set things up for that to happen.
Why don't you approach things from a positive perspective...with positive theories and ideas and see if they don't "prove" themselves, too????
And maybe, at the end of it all, you'll realize they are just a group of people trying to live their lives. There is good and bad and lots in between in their way of doing business....
And I'm guessing they would begin to be a far more open society if everytime they turned around there wasn't someone there trying to cause them harm.....
Laurie said, 'Hey bigmouth, name something in BANKING ON HEAVEN that "is being proven to be BULLSHIT."'
I have a challenge for YOU! Instead of asking me to show where the bullshit is, YOU show where the BULLSHIT AINT!...Never mind.....I just found it.EUREKA!
There IS some modicum of truth to Laurie's soap opera, after all, wherein Laurie admits she has "known hatred and hatred knows no mercy"....
boy aren't you the astute one.
That line right there is the one good grape in the bucket of swill. But hey! It explains sooooo much about you!!
Alrighty then......about that life rehab you are so in need of......
I hate to be the one who breaks this to you, but the more you spew hate and anger, the more you are filled with it....and it just gets harder and harder to break free.
So this could take a WHILE! But it will be worth it.
Admit it Laurie.....You are broken. You need fixed. Get fixed. YOU fix YOU.
And once you realize that you do not need to be continually vindicated, and that you don't HAVE to lie to be SOMEBODY, and you don't have to stand on someone else's head to make you look tall....
and that you can gain just as much recognition in doing GOOD for people,(like Mother Teresa, for example) your world can be beautiful, and you will be happy, TRULY happy for the first time in your life.
I can just SEE it on OPRAH! It is a lot like the story of the ugly duckling....... you would be transformed!
You could SMILE! Everyone would be SO impressed!
You would get stuff like, "hey. did you get a face-lift?" or "Have you been working out?" "What have you done with yourself? You look positively FABULOUS!" and "I'll have what SHE'S having"........
There it is. RECOGNITION! It is amazing what happens when a person is happy with herself.
IMHO Said (2:26 PM)
And once you realize that you do not need to be continually vindicated, and that you don't HAVE to lie to be SOMEBODY, and you don't have to stand on someone else's head to make you look tall....and that you can gain just as much recognition in doing GOOD for people,(like Mother Teresa, for example) your world can be beautiful, and you will be happy, TRULY happy for the first time in your life.
STREET's REPLY: Yes, but before all that can happen, the demonic legions must be exorcised and tossed into a herd of pigs. And then, if you did that, you'd see poor Laurie also running headlong into the Sea. Imagine the headlines: "Laurie the Pig takes a dump".
Street
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