The latest cost report from Texas
In June, it was estimated that the cost of Texas' raid on the Yearning For Zion Ranch would total about $14 million, a figure that included costs of the child welfare agency. A more complete cost breakdown has now been distributed by the Division of Family and Protective Services, which is pasted below. The $12.4 million figure does not include court or law enforcement costs.
San Angelo Mass Care Event Costs
Reported Overtime
Health and Human Services Commission $70,483
Department of Family and Protective Services $2,458,799
Department of State Health Services $160,505
Department of Assistive and Rehabilitative Services $13,441
Department of Aging and Disability Services $13,680
Health and Human Services Agencies Total $2,716,908
Texas Department of Public Safety/Gov. Division of Emergency Mgt $430,207
Texas Department of Criminal Justice $1,485
Texas Forest Service $37,648
Other Agencies Total $469,340
Reported Overtime Total $3,186,248
State Staff Travel
Health and Human Services Commission $50,229
Department of Family and Protective Services $1,484,907
Department of State Health Services $80,457
Department of Assistive and Rehabilitative Services $9,906
Department of Aging and Disability Services $0
Health and Human Services Agencies Total $1,625,499
Texas Department of Public Safety/Gov. Division of Emergency Mgt $81,873
Texas Department of Criminal Justice $0
Texas Forest Service $14,850
Other Agencies Total $96,723
State Staff Travel Total $1,722,222
Goods and Services
Buses $1,065,049
Unified Command Center (primarily shelter and food) $955,056
Local Government Costs $881,577
Professional Services $339,103
Ambulances $244,043
Janitorial $132,430
Building and Equipment Rental $98,398
Other $93,677
Supplies $69,548
Fuel $9,992
Temporary Staff $6,516
Other Transportation $3,903
Department of Public Safety Operating Costs $181,003
Texas Department of Criminal Justice Equipment Costs $3,918
Department of State Health Services Medical Costs $14,631
Health and Human Services Commission Equipment and Supplies $114,517
Goods and Services Total $4,213,361
San Angelo Mass Care Event Total $9,121,830
Foster Care and Other Placement Related Costs
Foster Care Placement Costs $1,262,408
Security and Other Placement Related Costs $1,075,572
Medicaid Costs $976,500
Foster Care and Other Placement Related Costs Total $3,314,480
Grand Total $12,436,310
Recap of Expenditures by State Agency
Health and Human Services Commission $1,211,729
Department of Family and Protective Services $10,180,978
Department of State Health Services $255,593
Department of Assistive and Rehabilitative Services $23,347
Department of Aging and Disability Services $13,680
Health and Human Services Agencies Total $11,685,327
Texas Department of Public Safety/Gov. Division of Emergency Mgt $693,082
Texas Department of Criminal Justice $5,403
Texas Forest Service $52,498
Other Agencies Total $750,983
Grand Total $12,436,310
San Angelo Mass Care Event Costs
Reported Overtime
Health and Human Services Commission $70,483
Department of Family and Protective Services $2,458,799
Department of State Health Services $160,505
Department of Assistive and Rehabilitative Services $13,441
Department of Aging and Disability Services $13,680
Health and Human Services Agencies Total $2,716,908
Texas Department of Public Safety/Gov. Division of Emergency Mgt $430,207
Texas Department of Criminal Justice $1,485
Texas Forest Service $37,648
Other Agencies Total $469,340
Reported Overtime Total $3,186,248
State Staff Travel
Health and Human Services Commission $50,229
Department of Family and Protective Services $1,484,907
Department of State Health Services $80,457
Department of Assistive and Rehabilitative Services $9,906
Department of Aging and Disability Services $0
Health and Human Services Agencies Total $1,625,499
Texas Department of Public Safety/Gov. Division of Emergency Mgt $81,873
Texas Department of Criminal Justice $0
Texas Forest Service $14,850
Other Agencies Total $96,723
State Staff Travel Total $1,722,222
Goods and Services
Buses $1,065,049
Unified Command Center (primarily shelter and food) $955,056
Local Government Costs $881,577
Professional Services $339,103
Ambulances $244,043
Janitorial $132,430
Building and Equipment Rental $98,398
Other $93,677
Supplies $69,548
Fuel $9,992
Temporary Staff $6,516
Other Transportation $3,903
Department of Public Safety Operating Costs $181,003
Texas Department of Criminal Justice Equipment Costs $3,918
Department of State Health Services Medical Costs $14,631
Health and Human Services Commission Equipment and Supplies $114,517
Goods and Services Total $4,213,361
San Angelo Mass Care Event Total $9,121,830
Foster Care and Other Placement Related Costs
Foster Care Placement Costs $1,262,408
Security and Other Placement Related Costs $1,075,572
Medicaid Costs $976,500
Foster Care and Other Placement Related Costs Total $3,314,480
Grand Total $12,436,310
Recap of Expenditures by State Agency
Health and Human Services Commission $1,211,729
Department of Family and Protective Services $10,180,978
Department of State Health Services $255,593
Department of Assistive and Rehabilitative Services $23,347
Department of Aging and Disability Services $13,680
Health and Human Services Agencies Total $11,685,327
Texas Department of Public Safety/Gov. Division of Emergency Mgt $693,082
Texas Department of Criminal Justice $5,403
Texas Forest Service $52,498
Other Agencies Total $750,983
Grand Total $12,436,310
843 Comments:
When I think of the real goods and services that money could have been used for....for real people with real, true needs...
The difference that could have been made in people's lives that want and need services.....
Makes me physically ill!!!!
That makes two of us!!
And at the bottom of the pile, we have a scared 17 year old teenager, who's mortified about getting caught in the crosshairs of all this bureaucracy -- again! Wait 'til she's surrounded by social workers not-so-gently urging her to give her baby up for adoption.
That's millions of dollars spent to suck blood from the poor and vulnerable, claiming unctuously that it's in their "best interest."
Hey Laurie, just think how far 12Mil would go toward food stamps!!!
hahahahahahaha
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Mr Miller,
My name is Jeff Tennen, I am an active duty Marine Officer stationed in Camp Pendleton. I want to personally thank you for writing your book and bringing to light what is truly going on in Iraq. I spent 6 months in Ramadi with the Iraqi Army as an advisor and it makes me sick to my stomach to think about all the young Marines and soldiers who haveo been killed so that these corporations can make some money. Not too mention all the times I got shot at so that some guy from KBR at Camp Ramadi could pull in 100+k a year.
Thanks again,
Jeff Tennen
Blood Money.......
The government certainly profitted at these families expense. Of course polygamous are hated for breaking the law so they are to blame and innocent children are to be held accountable. It is terrible how hate is being used.
None of these families are getting help nor will they.
I will never, ever forget the mother being guarded at the hospital having her baby. That had to be so traumatic for both the mother and the infant.
The worst thing of all is that it was a lie...the woman was NOT underaged.
I don't think I want to remember what those people went through, it is enough to make one physically ill.
The worse thing about it all is that the judge was re-elected not impeached. I don't know how people can live with themselves.
Thanksgiving is almost upon us. I wonder if these people are actually thankful they caused these people harm?
I will tell you one thing, I am certainly thankful I wasn't involved in causing all that harm. I would rather be a street person than to cause people harm for money, especially innocent toddlers and newborn babies.
I am just absolutely certain this newborn baby is going to be found with cigarette burns, her mother goes out drinking and does drugs with a different man every night and the baby is being totally neglected Judge Barbara Walther. This is beyond pathetic, it is sick!
One more thing and this makes me the most angry. If indeed any woman are being abused they are NOT going to seek help, Judge Barbara Walther? You have stopped them in their tracks, congrats Judge Barbara Walther! Abusers appreciate judges like you, Judge Barbara Walther !
My wives and I are appalled. We never underestimate man's propensity to hate.
Judge Walther HAS caused a lot of damage. Remember the children.
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Laurie, coming from someone with her finger in the pie, I'll take that cautiously.
BTW, have you seen quite a spike in documentary sales since the raid?
Here's a link to a music video made for world peace....kinda helps keep everything in perspective
http://www.flixxy.com/peace-through-music.htm
Texas Forest Service? I'm really curious what the Texas Forest Service has to do with this whole affair.
rericson said...
When I think of the real goods and services that money could have been used for....for real people with real, true needs...
The difference that could have been made in people's lives that want and need services.....
Makes me physically ill!!!!
***********'=
So Flds underage marriages, girls 14 having babies, married to a man with several wives aren't REAL people Rericson? Is that what your saying?
By the way a 12 or 14 yr old can't legally decided to get married Rericson, they legally can't give consent for the 100th time
By the way there is a story in the Denver news interview with Shelly Cooke a husband and father kicked out of Flds.
Reporting
Rick Sallinger
E-mail DENVER (CBS4) ― A Denver area man claims he was thrown out of the polygamist group the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS). It separated him from his wife and children including two who are severely handicapped.
"I was forced out I was suddenly, no warning at all, I was told I was done," Cooke said.
He claims Warren Jeffs ordered him out of the FLDS in a dispute over the care of his severely handicapped daughter who later died.
"I had children there," Cooke said. "I was no longer allowed to see. I had handicapped children that needed medication and needed care."
And this is only part of the cost!
There is nothing factored in about the cost to the FLDS community...the millions of dollars in lost revenues,and set backs in development of the ranch and lost wages for time spent dancing to the tune of CPS....
And there is nothing in these figures about the ongoing cost of persecution/prosecution...or the atty's time...
And this doesn't reflect the human cost...the effect the traumas will have for years to come...the lives disrupted...the homes shattered....
This is a travesty beyond our ability to calculate....and it just keeps going.....
Rericson, the story on Shelly Cooke was in the Denver paper today.
Do you think a profit has the right to kick a husband , father out because he ask for help with his two severly handicapped children?
By the one of those children has since died.
Oh yes, this is a very caring, sharing group alright.
"I had children there," Cooke said. "I was no longer allowed to see. I had handicapped children that needed medication and needed care."
Cooke says his wife and children were reassigned to another man. Wanting to get away from it Cooke moved to Denver 9 years ago and gained a new perspective.
harley, I think as long as you are naive enough to buy the main stream media's accounts without bothering to ask questions and look for the "back story" then I think you are nothing but a rabble rouser of the worst sort.....
Texas has spent millions to help any child who is being abused Rericson, not just Flds children.
Don't worry about the funds, Texas is doing well with their economy.
Rericson,
You are full of feces and you know that!!!
Here is the denver story.
http://cbs4denver.com/investigates/FLDS.cooke.shelly.2.873435.html
Rericson as long as you beleive the pig in a poke, pliggy, you will never see beyond that.
http://cbs4denver.com/investigates
/FLDS.cook.shelly.2.873435.html
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harley
You're wasting your breath with rericson. I can't figure her out honestly. All the stories have common elements. They are from different people from different places many who don't know one another. For some reason Regina just wants to reject them all.
I always love it when she tells Laurie who lived it that she doesn't know what she's talking about.
If Harley knew Shelley Cooke, he would not mention his name in support of his views.
There is a LOT left unsaid in the interview, and that is just as well, since Shelley would not want to do TOO much stirring! Wouldn't want anyone to cast aspersions, now would we?
Suffice it to say, Shelley is NOT a good poster child for your cause, Harley.
Promise ya.
I am VERY surprised that Shelley would have the gall to "come forward" after all these years.
If people only did just a tiny bit of digging, they would discover why a man like Shelley Cooke is no longer a part of the FLDS!
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I doubt Shelley Cooke ever even met Warren Jeffs. Shelly is the guy Ruth was talking about in your movie Laurie, not Warren Jeffs. But of course you probably knew that.
Ron, et al...
Y'all love to decide what you think I think...I have never, ever said there isn't an element of truth in the 'stories'....I'm sure there is...for most anyway...I think there are some 'Johnny-come-lately' types who are jumping on the bandwagon now because it's 'in'....who knows what the reality of their 'stories' is....
I think Laurie's experiences are dated and from an entirely differnt group, with very different practices, than the FLDS...
I think for every sad story there are far more happy stories...
I think if anyone is going to paint a picture of the fundamental Mormon groups, collectively, one has to take care to also distinguish them from one another...
I think if one is to paint a picture of an individual group, one has to show all the aspects...good and bad...or call it fiction....
I think Laurie and Carolyn, particularly, but the others are also guilty,have created a picture to match their personal needs and the pictures they have created are not realistic....
I think anytime there is a family, or group, or community that one wants to impact on, one does not do that effectively by hitting them over the head with a baseball bat....
And I think the more times one swings the bat, the more defensive the party gets....
I think if you talk to any individual in the FLDS community, one to one, they will tell you they are not a perfect people, or a perfect community, but that they strive for that, each and every day....If you talk to that same individual in a public forum, in a challenging way, they are going to tell you a. their life is none of your business, and b. their life is as good as it gets and you are full of crap....
Oh, by the by...I have blue eyes.....and my hair color is natural...anything else?????
Oh my....the truth starts to emerge...Pliggy, do tell.....
Seems to me that if someone puts themselves in the spotlight, willingly and knowingly, then they have to be ready for wahtever the fallout, or blow-back is.....
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Shelley is the father of Ruth's children. They were not put together by the FLDS leaders, but they were married at one time. Shelley was abusive to Ruth, and his handicapped daughter.
Laurie, have you seen your film?
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and... you never showed her say their names once. You superimposed rants by Flora, Carolyn, and Penny about how Ruth was abused by Warren Jeffs. Maybe you haven't seen your film after the final cut?
Pliggy, I have a question;
If two young people meet, and there are 'sparks", or attraction...can they go to the bishop or the Prophet and ask to be married? Or are all marriages through revelation?
Or say someone working outside the community meets someone and there is that 'attraction', can the outsider be brought into the community as a convert? and can those two marry?
All we ever hear about is young girls being 'married off' by older men, or to older men...or wives being 'reassigned'....It would seem to me that there is a larger span of how things happen than what gets talked about....
Regina, we believe in revelation. We don't believe that "sparks" are revelation, but we do believe that God can inspire anyone about their marriage. It is a religious, and responsible act, not a hormonal one.
If the subject wasn't so religious, and so sacred to me, and the FLDS people, I could tell ya personal stories.
Pliggy..."sparks" was just a word I chose to use to easily convey that intangible 'feeling' that two people sometimes get...where they 'know' they are right for each other....so to you, that would be described as 'inspiration'....
So then, what you're saying is, 'yes', if two people are inspired, they can go to the bishop or Prophet and talk about it and ask to be married....
or to their parents first, I would imagine....but what I'm getting at is that it isn't one way, or the highway....that there are many ways marriages come to happen...and you're saying that's correct, with the caveat that all those different ways have God's inspiration or revelation at their root.....
But there aren't hard rules about it that many of the stories portray....
Or am I missing something????
IMHO
search around once in awhile, there is a LONG conversaion with Shelley and Ruth cooke on the internet.
Not only those particular two either, seems like lots misconceptions on who flds are or aren't are everywhere.
It's like the Hatfields and the McCoy's, just as Iv'e stated all along, they ALL LIE!!!
We spend billions in Afghanistan and Iraq, so what's a few million to clean up the Taliban in America?-Laurie
--------
Is this how you are promoting your movie Laurie?
I have absolutely NO respect for anyone that profits at anothers expense. I for one will not contribute a penny to the cause Laurie!
The hard rules are it is wrong for the young people to use their hormones to decide who they marry. The prophet is the "matchmaker" usually, but not exclusively. But will not marry them unless he is inspired as well.
The sacredness of these things is something you cannot understand fully outside of the religion. We don't believe God is some abstract philosophy or strict set of rules given for every case being the exact same, we believe He is alive and well.
Harley said, "Not only those particular two either, seems like lots misconceptions on who flds are or aren't are everywhere."
Thank you for acknowledging that.
And YOU, sir, are perpetuating these misconceptions by sucking in every pile of crap that is shot into the wind and then sending them on like they were spoken by Jesus himself.
It is people like Shelley who CREATED a bad name for the FLDS!
People like Dan Fischer, and Flora's dad; the very ones who are standing on the top of the roof in their bare asses screaming and pointing, THOSE are the ones who have created a hell on earth for their families in the FLDS prior to their being sent away.
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Pliggy, I do understand the sacredness of marriage. Especially in your world. I just didn't know if it always came about the same way. I do understand that the sacred aspect is ALWAYS the same...just not the mechanics....*smile*
So that's why I asked....
I know you have told me before how each situation, not just marriage...all the different things that come before the bishop or the Prophet are dealt with individually....anyway, thank you for answering my questions....
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Rericson ask Ruth Stubbs if she was allowed to marry who she was in love with? She wasn't.
Ruth Stubbs was chosen to marry her sisters husband! Not asked to, nor did she Offer or Want to be married when she was.
Sixteen-year-old Ruth Stubbs wanted to marry the boy down the street.
So she revealed her desire to a religious leader, a man held in the highest esteem in her rural, isolated community straddling the Arizona-Utah border.
On a December morning four years ago, Ruth sought the advice of the Prophet of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 88-year-old Rulon Jeffs.
Ruth asked the stroke-ridden Jeffs for permission to marry Carl Cooke, a young man she had been seeing secretly for several months.
Jeffs pondered the question for a moment and then delivered a startling pronouncement.
"Well," Jeffs said, gesturing toward Rodney Holm, a police officer who had escorted Ruth to the meeting, "I feel she belongs to you."
Ruth was stunned, but not surprised. She barely knew Holm, but what she did know was disturbing.
At 32, Holm was twice her age.
And Rodney was already married - to two women, one of whom (his first wife) is Ruth's sister, Suzie.
"Shocked, I was," Ruth told investigators from the Arizona Attorney General's Office, after relating the story of her meeting with Jeffs.
Phoenix New Times, March 2003
After Shelly Cooke was kicked out, Ruth was married to another man, who she says was worse than Shelly. She names several men as murdering people in Flds. Sam Barlow for one.
Personally for me, I think Most Flds are Crazy , or Vengeful or Both.
According to Pliggy, Flds and non Flds pretty much don't give a crap about anything, the one's who left, well they Just HATED the ones inside.
The ones who stay, Hate other who are still in the Cult.
By all the different so called Testimony of Non Flds kicked out or left hate each other to one extent or the other.
Oh yeah this is a very loving, compassionate group! lol
Well, now we know why the FLDS are getting more pure...
They no longer have the bad seed within.
Now that Carolyn, Flora, Dan, Elissa, etc., etc., etc. are not contaminating the whole...
One bad apple spoils the bunch...get the bad out and the good get better. :)
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Laurie...
Funny you should mention "keep sweet", I've been trying to do just that....without much success, I might add....
But it sure does feel good!
*smile*
Laurel and Hardy,
I know it is an easy thing to do, but to portray your own hatred as "that is the way everyone is" is rather narrow minded.
Carl Cook is my cousin. Ruth Stubbs' father was not FLDS, he left the faith in the 1980's. But her oldest sister was married to Rodney Holm, my Uncle. Carl Cook had left the faith and when he and Ruth wanted to get married, she wanted to join the FLDS to do so, and get married by the prophet Rulon Jeffs. When Ruth was baptized, she was living with her sister, and they went to see the Prophet together, he had much more confidence in Rodney than in Carl, and suggested she marry him. She agreed, and I saw her in our Sunday School and around town many times and she certainly didn't look unhappy to me. If she had wanted to marry Carl more than be FLDS, she could have done that without going to Rulon Jeffs. Carl never was reconverted to the faith.
Penny Stubbs, Ruths other sister, was pregnant with her first child before she left town in the 80's, and had several children by several men before she met and married Joel Peterson, who is 10 years her junior and also former FLDS. They came back to "rescue" Ruth, and tell a few whoppers about her own "escape" to the media. Hence the Rodney Holm trial, where Utah passed a law in 2001 that they convicted him of breaking in 1998.
Thank you, Ron, again, for the blessing of common sense.
I seriously doubt you have a penny to contribute, and frankly, I couldn't care less what you do.
You're part of the problem, not the solution.
---------
A person that makes gain at the expense of others are who are bankrupted.
Too bad you didn't have the same attitude towards me as you do towards FLDS folks.
I don't remember FLDS folks asking for a solution other than to be left to themselves. I think it is people like you that contribute to their problems.
Oh, please. This BS that it's about spirituality not hormones. A man cannot make a baby without having a good time. The women are not so lucky.
Also the tone of superiority that suggests that no one else considers their marriages sacred, nor has a serious commitment to God. We're all tainted with our sexual love. Please. The FLDS did not invent sex, babies or God!
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If that is what Pliggy believes so be it. He has a Constitutional right to his spiritual beliefs.
I personally don't have a problem with that as long as it is not forced upon me.
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There are all kinds of contrasts in life and I for one don't want to waste my life trying to make everyone the same.
Live and let live!
Ron:
"harley
You're wasting your breath with rericson. I can't figure her out honestly. All the stories have common elements. They are from different people from different places many who don't know one another. For some reason Regina just wants to reject them all.
I always love it when she tells Laurie who lived it that she doesn't know what she's talking about"
Betty:
"Thank you, Ron, again, for the blessing of common sense."
This was in response to comments regarding a man in the news that claims he was booted out and did not see his children, a response from an ATTORNEY! ...and the latter comment from his fan!
Looks rather silly, when you consider the fact that Shelly's wife evidently did NOT want to leave with him and what divorce courts could do for visitation & medical care issues IF that father of children felt that his rights were violated or the children were placed in danger some way.
Betty, dude, it is not your faith that is hated and is constantly being attacked. That is the only reason I even said what I did. I never said yours wasn't a choice you can make, that the FLDS invented anything, or that you can't think yours is superior to mine. I only demand the same right.
Back to the topic, this record of cost reported here does not include the Cost of Operations concentrated on the raid and mess that followed.
The only the cost posted are those above what was hidden in the standard operating cost (overtime, added goods & services...).
It also does not include any cost of the judicial system (courts, prosecutors...).
If it included every dollar the state has spent, I'd guess it to be 3 times what they are revealing here.
It would be nice to see how much of the budgets for standard operating costs were spent on this mess.
I didn't see where pliggy said anything about his faith having an exclusive on the sanctity or religiosity of marriage...what I think he said is that in his religion, it is about the only strict rule concerning marriage, is that IT IS NOT to be about hormones, it must be inspired by God...
He didn't say that couldn't be true in other religions...he said it is true in his...
where's the problem?
And Betty, I have no problem believing that marriage in the FLDS is not about hormones...many times the bride and groom have never even met until just prior to the wedding...
The hormones come later, after, or during, the courtship, which comes after the wedding......
K- doesn't it just turn your stomach? I can't get past thinking about the real needed services that could have been provided for this money.....
R,
Not only a waste of funds that could have been used better elsewhere, but a twisted method they use to hide the TOTAL COST by putting out these figures that are really only a part of the costs.
Their own numbers given to the state senate reveal much they forgot to include here.
LOL!!!
Those Texans are no better at counting dollars than they've been counting children (a number they still do not have correct!).
This is from Ruth Cooke's own mouth. She is evidently a very sick person, mentally, we should keep her in our prayers.
Dick, Willard, Sam Barlow, Shelly Cooke. They had the say. I was the retard. They hired the lawer's. They hired the judge. I was the retard. I had to come home, and hear little children in the park in freedonia ask me if I stole children, cause the adult's were to coward to talk to me. My counsler's get the report from Dick. I was the retard. I was halucinating. There is no abuse in the creek. I said I know, you threw out your victum. That is why I love children so much. They are truthful. I called D. D.D. and told them I wanted Nathan back. They said did you sign that paper. The women was rude to me. I said, " yes" I had. I took a parenting class in flagstaf. Dick and willard came down, and in great jest and Humor had me sign the paper, and I took a parenting class. So, I began to wonder, at this DDD women, and the children. I knew what Dick said. Well, so My case manager, and the colorado city police department played games with me, until I demanded they sign a paper, saying they gave a copy of the court order, to my case manager. I then found out, I was a convicted, mentaly retarded, child abuser, acording to the paper's. They did not say specifiacly, what my crime was. When I went to Lamar Winward, and HE gave me a copy of his file, after a film documentry women, put her camra in his face, there was a letter, Shelly G. Cooke, had written, telling of how I abused my children for twelve year's. Incedentaly, when Cathy Bistline was my respite sitter, she said she walked in on him molesting my daughter. I did not know at this time, that he did. I however, did begin to wonder, and I found blood in her diaper. I took her to Dr. Twigg's. He said she had an infection. I again found blood in her diaper. I confronted him. Sam Barlow and him took me to kingman. I did not know why we went. we went into a room, and a women said, do not put her in this jail, she will never survive. I lokked at her and said What? she said, did you hurt your daughter. I said no. this women was upset and took me out of the room. I said I would be ok. I was used to shelly's story's. I had never seen him hurt any one tho. He was full of cockied bull shit stories' and how did I know sam was not my enamie. well at any rate, i went home, and Went for a walk before i went to get my children from the baby sitter. I had an impression to go home. I did. I walked in on him in the act of molesting my daughter. I left him that day. Dick Knew this. He brought Shelly back up, to use his testomonie, to put me away. Shelly and willard also worked together. they started a dry wall company. When I was married to willard, Shelly was alway's hanging around. Willard would take me to see, him and try to tell me to hang up his photo in my room. Willard was the sickest and the grossest person I hae ever met. He drugged and tormented my handicap children, and teased and tormented Leann's three month old Baby. He dealt drug's out to the air port. He made more than one attempt on my life. and would scream at me, and go through the motion's of choking me to death. Why he was doing this gross abuse, and I have only told a little, I had to endure, these Barlow's insult me, because I was not quite as elete as them. All my freind's turned from me, because He was the wonderful, smooth talking Barlow, and I was the retarded Cooke. I quit talking. I figured it would satisfy them. I also called Utah child protective services. I was the retard. I ran away from willard's house. My ten year old son was dragged from my arm's. I went back into Dicks house. there it was my daughter died. and in the fall of that year, Mitzi also was drugged and I was told that every one would think I killed her and me. I went to the mental hospital. I worked for a year in flagstaff, where my sister came to live with me. she found us a house that was fit for a human being. She is the first I heard talk out about the gross situation of Dick, and the grossness of sam. We both wanted to go home tho, so we were still owned by Dick. He did let me go home. And shortly after, my sister went home too, and the horribleness of that man, their is no word's to describe. Jack was easy to live with compared to him. Jack went away to work some time's, so we had some life. Dick had a job at home and dictated every thing. I bought me one pair of sox, once, and I got screamed at for not letting him run the money. so if you hate me, I say go ahead. I do not care. And the only way a person can controle you is if you want some thing from them. I would never set foot in his house again for any thing upon this earth. I would not take his money if he had a million dollar's. And if you realy want to know the whole truth, willard is paying some of those girl's rent in st. george, and buying his truck from a man that raped the girl. The Horribleness of Willard and Dick and shelly and the rest you do not want to know. The buried murdered are in our grave yard. I was the only one I know who survived Dick's smuck, to speak. My sister, who had cancer was starved to death, why dick harrased us because we loved her. I only seen some of this, and I was his next victum. My babies if you want to know the whole horrid truth, looked like my sister, and me. at one point. It was chosen for me to starve to death on america's street, since I survived the other attempt's. He called people and sturred them up with stories about me, and who would hire a convicted mentally ill, child abuser's? I could not figure out why people treated me so weird. I did notice I only had this problem with people treating me weird in this area. and I do so love those children who talked to me. I did do some talking then. I had to sneak and go off my medication, because every time I tried, Dick would harass the hell out of me, and when I did go off the drug's my doctor, started saying oh, your getting better. And Walla, I am not retarded, tho I did do some weird thing's last year. I am finding me again. I also was drugged by Willard before I went to the mental hospital. Do you wonder why some people are crazy? maybe next time you meet a disabled person you will at least treat them like a human
2005
How come no other FLDS helped this woman??? Where were her so called family???? You know all those so called "HOLY" loving, compassionate, helpful family members????
rericson,
You have a whole subculture based on which man can get the most women and make the most babies and you don't see that that has anything to do with hormones. It's one thing for Pliggy to say that nonsense, but from you it's pathetic.
Pliggy what is it with you?? You would lie about what those of those who ran or were excommunicated when they tell what has happened in their life when they LIVED polygamy in FLDS.
Just as Ruth cooke said, once the women are married, they are told the women are then owned first by the prophet then the husband.
Ruth Stubbs said the same thing! That her husband told her, He was responsible to the Prophet, and SHE was responsible to her husband!
The children were responsible to her. If they act up, or get in trouble,Then it falls back on him as a husband to the Prophet. So she better keep those children Sweet!
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kpb,
if you go back and look at the post by Ron it had nothing to do with Shelly Cooke. It was about rericson.
Charlie Crist, Gov. of Fla. just announced his wedding...to happen 12/12...to a young woman many, many years his junior...
and CNN's news banner is saying, "FLDS Sect teenager to allow DNA testing of her infant to determine paterity."
rericson, that 'young' fiance of Crist's is 38 years old. And, bonus, he's not claiming God told him to! How refreshing.
Betty...are you serious?! I saw the clip and only heard the tail end of it...holy jamoly....she looks way, way younger!
Crist is 52 his fiance is 38!
Thats not 52 and 12 like warren and merrianne Rericson.
Betty,
Harley and Regina were talking about 2 topics before Ron's post;
1. The numbers Brooke posted; and
2. Shelly Cooke.
You pick which comment topic Ron was responding to.
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Ron in Houston said...
harley
You're wasting your breath with rericson. I can't figure her out honestly. All the stories have common elements. They are from different people from different places many who don't know one another. For some reason Regina just wants to reject them all.
I always love it when she tells Laurie who lived it that she doesn't know what she's talking about.
10:16 AM
****************
He was talking about Rericson KDP. Are you so ignorant you have to have his comment explained to YOU??? lol
Laurie, for crying out loud, get a life...
I saw a news blip...the lady looks fantastic! From the looks of it, it was an old geezer and a bombshell...no biggy...and they had the tape saying that the baby's dna would be taken...
No lie...just perception....
The workers who thought so manyof the FLDS young women were underage were in the right...I thinkk someone looks very young and I'm in the wrong...y'all are all nuts....
Ron just gets all kindsof bent out of shape because he understands exactly what I'm saying about various things...and he kows my arguments are on the money...and he knows I was trained to think the same way he was...and he can't dismiss me...so he has been known to do the same kind of ad hominem attacking laurie always resorts to...
Oh well...adios, for now kiddies...hope everyone has a wonderful thanksgiving...
Ron in Houston said...
I always love it when she tells Laurie who lived it that she doesn't know what she's talking about
So, explain this to me, if I live in Argentina I can compare life and politics there with Canada cause its in the same continent?
its the only thing it has in common!!
FLDS and LABARON only had poligamy in common.......... its the only thing, FLDS lives religion in a complete different way, you can watch pictures from labaron and their dress code includes pants...........
I dont understand why people insist that they are the same. I am going to make a scifi movie about how poor people live in the USA because I know how poor people live in Mexico...............
ROFL
People, I really dont understand it... I mean, we only know what we read, and then we have REAL PEOPLE THAT BELONG to the FLDS who say what they feel, who tell us their experiences, that are MUCH different than the ones we read from the "runaways" and still people dont believe them and tell them they are lying.
There are thoulsands of FLDS and because a few group decided to say something about them cause they dont belong there anymore, then suddenly all the world believes them.
Have you guys read what Maggie Jessop wrote to carolyn?
Or do you guys think she is brainwashed and stupid like they say "ALL THE WOMAN THAT BELONG IN FLDS ARE"?
This is really absurd. And worse of all........ we dont even know what is really happening.
Dan Fischer was supossed to come to Monterrey for a dental talk on December 3 and he told his company representatives here that HE CANT GET OUT OF THE USA!!!!
Why is this? I thought he was a north american!!!
Or do North Americans have an ammount of permits to get out of their country. ROFL!!!
All this noise just makes me remember some years ago in Colombia when Bush went to Cartagena. The police was soooo busy taking care of the president of USA that the guerrilla took a "SUBMARINE" out of Colombia full of drugs.
And there where police involved ROFL...
And this is just so much like it... They are making this big noise with the FLDS just to get some big ammount of money out of the goverment who knows for what, meanwhile they "BRAINWASH" the readers and have them so busy with this topic that they can do whatever they want with other situations....
Ron, come on. Laurie did not 'live through it' if we're talking about the FLDS (and we are). It's like having a member of Jim Jones' church tell you what life was like as a Mormon. The two groups are different.
If harley's quotes from Ruth Stubbs are accurate, then Laurie also exploits the mentally ill.
As for Harley's question about where the FLDS were, why they didn't help her- it sounds like the had many of the same struggles any other family has with a mentally ill family member- she wouldn't stay on her meds, and viewed those who tried to get her to use them as persecutors. I am very sorry for her- but she hardly comes across as a reliable witness. She's a deeply troubled individual.
I know the FLDS love to say they're not like the Centennials or the LaBaron's or any of those other break away groups but the reality is that they are much more alike than different.
The only real differences are the levels of insanity of their prophets.
kbp
What? I'm supposed to stay on topic?
The comment you addressed was to Harley about Regina. It was totally and completely off topic.
I love these comment threads. They take on lives of their own.
Regina
I could never dismiss you. You're an interesting soul who makes a lot of good points.
You have mastered one skill very well. If you're going to spout BS do it with an air of authority.
I know the FLDS love to say they're not like the Centennials or the LaBaron's or any of those other break away groups but the reality is that they are much more alike than different.
I know you atheist types like to think that all religious groups are the same (a week or two ago I encountered one who thought the Eastern Orthodox have a "pope"), but the fact is, they aren't. And different "levels of insanity", as you put it, can make quite a qualitative difference.
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Laurie, your comment is untrue, as is usual for you. Warren Jeffs was long out of the picture by the time the FLDS got the spotlight.
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???
Try reading again. It might work wonders.
Lucille
The problem I have with religion is that for many religious folks they lose their intelligence and common sense.
If Uncle Warren puts out a fatwa calling for Mark Shurtleff to meet an untimely end, you don't think one of his followers would blindly attempt to carry that out?
If Uncle Warren says drink the cool aid - you drink.
That's the insanity of religion.
If Uncle Warren puts out a fatwa calling for Mark Shurtleff to meet an untimely end, you don't think one of his followers would blindly attempt to carry that out?
If Uncle Warren says drink the cool aid - you drink.
Nice try, Ron. But the trouble with your concept though is that he hasn't and won't.
Like I said, your comment demonstrates a major intellectual weakness in atheists - some need to believe that "religion" is all one single thing and can be treated as such.
Lucille
Keep drinking the cool aid honey. It makes you sweet.
I can assure you that "Sweet" is one thing no-one ever calls me. :)
if the law says don't steal, we don't steal. If the Nazi pope says pray like this, you follow him. Its obvious. Every group needs a leader. And if Benedictus was a Nazi soldier then all Catholics are assasins like he is???
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Mayaan
It doesn't make you a Nazi but it makes you a fool for believing an ex Nazi is "infallible."
I don't know that every group needs a leader. Last time I checked your religion hasn't elevated any prophets in a long time.
Laurie
I know I hate those atheists like Lucille. I can't believe she denies the existence of Thor.
Dirty atheist.
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I can't believe she denies the existence of Thor.
Did I say I do? :p
Quite amusing that you're resorting to sarcasm and insults when you can't actually demonstrate how the FLDS and the LeBaron group are similarly violent.
Most atheists are intellectually weak, and you're no exception.
Ron
we have our grand rabbis in Jerusalem who are total authority for us. That is what Jeffs is for FLDS. Catholics have the pope, lds have their president and on and on and on. Each group needs a leader. So does each country. But we can't generalize and say "because this pope is a Nazi every catholic is" it would be just so wrong........
and that is what you guys are doing with FLDS. And are saying All husbands and men are abusers, all flds are brainwashed, all men are pedophiles.....
it just can't be possible.
now you are a lawyer, explain to me why a USA person like dan Fischer cant get out of USA.
I think his lies may be reaching an end... No more permits to get out of the country.
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Lucille
Actually your letting your intellectual weakness show. Did I say that FLDS are LaBarons are similarly violent? Why should I prove a point I didn't make.
The point is that everyone is an atheist. You don't believe that sacrificing your children to Set will give you a wonderful afterlife.
As long as people like you continue to drink, they'll make more cool aid.
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*sigh*
I quote:
I know the FLDS love to say they're not like the Centennials or the LaBaron's or any of those other break away groups but the reality is that they are much more alike than different.
If Uncle Warren puts out a fatwa calling for Mark Shurtleff to meet an untimely end, you don't think one of his followers would blindly attempt to carry that out?
Your exact words, Ron.
Maayan
I have no idea why Fischer can't get out of the USA. Then again, I don't have a passport so if I leave the USA I can't get back in.
Blame it on Bush and his "homeland security."
The point is that everyone is an atheist.
Only if you distort the meaning of "atheist" beyond recognition.
Lucille
I guess they didn't teach critical reading skills in home school.
The only reason some of the FLDS have not killed anyone is because their prophet's insanity (so far) only extends to child sexual abuse.
*Sigh*
Lucille
You better stop before Thor smites you. He can be a pretty angry fellow you know.
I guess all Americans are like Bush. All north Americans....
If the world keeps believing in lies movie directors make only to inflate their wallet and to make people they don't know hate other people they don't know, same as novel book writers and newspapers that write as they are told and not as things really are, all group haters will continue hating.... And people will continue suffering like FLDS mothers suffered with the raid. Its really sad.
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I guess they didn't teach critical reading skills in home school.
No they didn't. Not having been home-schooled, it would have been hard for "them" to teach me anything.
Maayan said:
I guess all Americans are like Bush. All north Americans....
I assume you're being sarcastic.
Only 20 some percent of cool aid drinking Republicans actually like Bush.
I would say he's an embarrassment to Texas but he's really a Yankee blue blood.
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Ron
I was just as sarcastic as you guys are saying that FLDS are ALL abusers, pedophiles, woman are brainwashed ete.etc.etc...
And to the other resentful with the world old grandma, I only wish for you the best, and go to an AA meeting please, so you stop drinking so much... instead of blaming others for your sins!!! I mean, drinking alcohol at this hour, no wonder you write what you do in the afternoon and "produce" the things you do!!
ROFL
Thank G-d I dont like alcohol!!!
oh my oh my oh my
really!!
Laurie said
maayan,
1. Americans don't like Bush.
ROFL!!!!!! THAT IS WHY HE WAS PRESIDENT NOT ONCE...WAIT.... TWICE IN A ROW,,,,,,,,,,,, HAHAHAHAHA
2. I'm a "producer" not a "director".
OK, UNDERSTOOD
3. Only a very small percentage of films ever made make a "profit".
WELL... I GUESS ONLY FILMS THAT ARE NOT CREDIBLE.... CAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT DO MAKE LOTS OF IT WITH MOVIES...
I HAVE AN UNCLE WHO DIRECTS MOVIES. AND FRIENDS IN HOLLYWOOD AND THEY DONT SAY THE SAME YOU DO.
4. I've never met anyone who "hates" members of the FLDS.
GO AND STAND INFRONT OF A MIRROR HUN!!!
5. The YFZ Ranch was raided because of a crank caller from Colorado, it had nothing to do with the press, book writers, or filmmakers.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHA
IM NOT ROFL, IM JUST WITH A STOMACH ACHE FOR ALL THAT THIS COMMENT MADE ME LAUGH. FLORA WAS BEHIND ALL THIS CRANK CALL, HAHAHAHA, AND ALL THE WHAT DO YOU GUYS CALL THEM? EXPERTS? CAROLYN, YOU, FLORA, MS NICHOLSON, DAN FISCHER HAHAHA, NO, YOU DIDNT MAKE THEM GO THERE DID YA????
HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU QUOTED ON THIS BLOG WARREN JEFFS SISTER?? THAT THE KIDS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE TO BE HELPED BLA BLA BLA
AND WHO DID THEY TAKE???
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA THIS TIME YOU DID MAKE ME LAUGH....
YOU SHOULD START MAKING COMEDIES, YOU ARE GOOD AT IT, THEN YOU WOULD START HAVING GREEN$$$$
YOU CANT IMAGINE HOW MUCH YOU MADE ALLEN AND ME LAUGH HAHAHAHA
Thank you, you made my day!!!
Lucille,
"Warren Jeffs was long out of the picture by the time the FLDS got the spotlight."
I am mystified by that statement. Every interview I have seen online with FLDS faithful suggests continued emotional attachment and adherence. Can you explain what you mean. Thanks.
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Im sorry thats all you have to say, no answer for anything...... just alcohol.... poor you Laurie, poor you.....
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really? Just because I dont think like you im ignorant?
Cmon, you can do better than that!!!
that is your answer? ignorant, drunk bla bla bla
you have no answer, cause you know im right, and then you act like a kindergarden baby, answering things that are really out of context here.
I thought you where smarter.... But once again you show what you are full of!!!
Ron;
"What? I'm supposed to stay on topic?
The comment you addressed was to Harley about Regina. It was totally and completely off topic."
You had wrote;
"... All the stories have common elements. They are from different people from different places many who don't know one another."
The previous comments of Harley & Regina should lead any reader would relate your summary to what was being discussed that could address "different people", which was about Shell Cooke.
As an attorney, you were ignoring the legal process available to Shelly (divorce, visitation, medical care decisions...) that would show Shelly's "oh poor me" story was BS.
********
Back on topic, Mr. Paul Anthony has done a fair job of showing you what BS the most recent cost numbers were.
""...Adding the grants and attorney fees that already have been paid to the DFPS report, the state has actually spent $12.66 million on the civil side of the case alone, with more likely to follow."
So, the state tells of $12+ million, Paul points out another $12+ million AND we still do not have the total STANDARD OPERATING spent on this mess.
OVERTIME reported = $3,186,248. That's the pay for time provided greater than 40 hours. OT is the hourly rate paid at 1.5.
How much did the state spend for the initial 40 hours worked on this raid before they had to report this OVERTIME????
The raid was going on for about a week, but the custody mess continued another couplee they even spread the children all across Texas.
If that 'time and a half' pay reflects 20% of the actual hours Texans paid for in this raid, that would add another...
$16,000,000.00
...to the cost of this mess.
This raid cost is closer to $40 million than it is to that measely $12 million Texas wants to dump out in the media.
And remember that ALL those involved that hold management level positions are not on hourly pay, so they were NOT paid any OVERTIME. Add that in also.
"The YFZ Ranch was raided because of a crank caller from Colorado, it had nothing to do with the press, book writers, or filmmakers."
LOL!!!
That splains it! NOT
That call was the EXCUSE used in the mess they will pay for.
ohh Kbp, I guess the "producer" will call you ignorant also!!
LOL
kbp
Thanks for explaining my thought processes for me. I'm glad you're inside my head.
As to your comments - it's a sad reality that it takes $$ to access the legal system.
Keep them women poor, barefoot, and pregnant and they won't give you no trouble, right?
Brooke
News flash --- kbp the internet pundit turned government accountant says that the State of Texas cooked the books on the FLDS raid.
"It's a vast governmental conspiracy," says kbp emphatically. kbp continues, "The State Board of Educaation alone has spent another two million dollars on anti prairie dress education."
He also has the alien bodies from Roswell which he'll surrender for a small fee.
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harley, they are not "owned" any more than you are bonehead. A man is leader of his family and the prophet is the leader of the men. No one is a slave, and no one is forced to do something they don't want to do, they just must be responsible for it.
I will tell ya why the stories are the same, it is because the religion is very unpopular in the first place, and when many leave, they say what they read others saying in the media, and some are even coached by them. They become instant folk hero's for the haters, and get their name in lights. The whole truth is irrelevant and almost never used. The goal is not the truth, the goal is to poison public opinion.
Congratulations laurie, you almost singlehandedly turned a small Colorado town into another Salem, MA or 1839 Missouri.
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And you arriving with your BS video was like bringing torches to the Salem mob. You can't blame anyone but yourself.
Lucille said...
Laurie, your comment is untrue, as is usual for you. Warren Jeffs was long out of the picture by the time the FLDS got the spotlight.
Lucille, surely you jest?? You have a huge imagination if you the spotlight wasn't on Warren clear back to 1998 dear. Why do you think he decided to build his "holy" Zion in Texas???
Investigators, AG from both Arizona and Utah were investigating crimes against the Welfare system by FLDS, crimes against Under age children getting married or thrown out.
Flds went through several MILLION dollars in Hildale and Colorado City the last 3 years to KDP. It wasn't their money, it was taxpayer money!
Most of which went to Warren Jeffs. When are they to begin paying all that money back???
Pliggy get yo head out of your ass for once! All the sucking up in the world isn't going to get you back in Flds!
But it's your choice to continue to waller in the mud.
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Everytime a close cousin or a girl marries someone related to her in Flds, their is a huge chance her child will have fumarse Pliggy.
So, yes in some circumstances, Flds do blood atonement, because they are breeding within the same families.
These children don't live long from the sever disabling of the children.
Nothing like Pliggy to get a "lively" discussion going.
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Awesome Idea Laurie!!
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Duaneh1, Yes they can live anywhere they want. But they still have to follow the Laws of whatever state they LIVE in.
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Actually Laurie, they are COWARDS!!
The second trouble they RAN!!! Grown men with families and children, LEFT them there to face whatever was to come. Not only do women not have a choice, they have to take the heat for the MEN!! As far as I'm concerned they are pussy-whipped, just sniveling pussy MEN!
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Westcliffers don't seem to mind the Amish, but the folks I met do not want the FLDS in the hood. The FLDS picked the wrong place to settle.
Yeah, well that is too bad! They can live where ever they damn well please! What are they going to do about it, string them up? I'm sure Laurie and Ron would love that.
If the bigots in Westcliffe don't like it, they they can move out and make room for those more tolerant. By the way, the Amish don't mind them.
I'm glad you brought this up though, In Westcliffe, it mostly elderly women, some younger couples, not a hint of underage marriages taking place, they invited Trent to interview and photograph them. These women spend most of their time growing vegetables and canning strawberries. Yet, the local bigot trailer trash and that hick sheriff still want them out?
If that is not bigotry and persecution, I don't know what is. It is incomprehensible to me that in this day and age, there are still so many willing to attack, belittle, and gush forth vitriolic hatred towards those whose religious practice, traditions, and clothing are different than theirs. It never ceases to amaze me that such ignorant and hateful individuals are still prevalent in our society. I just scratch my head sometimes and wonder how such folks’ value systems got so twisted where they can say such awful things and still believe they are tolerant and respectful people.
Laurie and "Ron in Houston"-who refers to the FLDS people as cockroaches-in spite of the fact that he is educated and should know better, IMHO are miserable bigoted sorry a@@ed pieces of crap IMHO!
Yes they can live anywhere they want. But they still have to follow the Laws of whatever state they LIVE in.
Great! Has the crime rate increased in Westcliffe since they moved in? Any evidence that would lead one believe they are committng crimes, other than they happen to be members of an unpopular religion? If not, leave them the F alone and mind you own damn business!
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duane, stop being a piss ant! Your not Flds and like you tell everyone else, Butt out!
I don't have a problem with a bunch of Old folks living together in a home. But I don't like the fact westcliff is a Hiding House, you nit wit!
Duaneh
Someone needs to teach you folks how to read critically. If you read the "cockroach" post, I called the fathers who wouldn't step up in the CPS case cockroaches. The ones that are being referred to in the comments who ran when the light was shined on their version of Zion.
I give people like you and Pliggy credit. You will stand up and speak out in defense of your beliefs. I give Pliggy added credit for letting everyone know who is behind the screen name.
Cockroaches run when the light comes on. Non-cockroaches won't. Warren Jeffs is a serious la cucaracha.
So, not all FLDS are cockroaches, but there are a large number of FLDS cockroaches.
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Laurie is just like mel gibson, he goes hey i dont hate jews, but when he gets drunk the first thing he does is insult us..
guess she drinks all day long to talk about FLDS people like she does.
You guys are no different than the german nazis. A bunch of bigots and racists. that is really called IGNORANCE!!!!
harley
Just curious - are you FLDS/ex-FLDS or just someone on the internet?
And how do you know duaneh1 is not?
Maayan
I'll bet Laurie has spent more time talking to the FLDS than you've ever had. She's formed her opinions from talking to people and researching.
Who's the ignorant one?
Ron In Houston
I don't know duanah1 at all, hope I never do!!
Iv'e seen his posts on brooke's blog and other blogs. The guy is Whacked.
He disagree's with any laws against anything, makes it clear in most of his posts.
He says it is the constitution he is fighting for, but doesn't realize the Judicuary is part of the Constitution. And Laws are as much for protection of the innocent as they are for the guilty.
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Ron;
"Thanks for explaining my thought processes for me. I'm glad you're inside my head."
I apologize Ron. I mistook what you wrote; "... All the stories have common elements. They are from different people from different places many who don't know one another", to include the only comments by either Harley or Regina on this blog at that time to have ACTUALLY included "all the stories" relating to your negative summary.
Knowing you are an attorney, it was a clear mistake on my part to take what you wrote to mean what it says.
As to it being "a sad reality that it takes $$ to access the legal system", the trully sad reality is thw waste in this case.
In what could be a process that costs $100+ million before it is all completed, including the civil complaints, the state of Texas still does NOT have a single COMPLAINING WITNESS.
And, through the process used, they have have violated the rights of ALL the children involved.
Regarding the numbers I posted, the total was theory possible. The state has already told us of expenses that exceed this $12 million BS. Read what they told their own Senate.
AND
FYI, there were no reports of any women from the ranch that were found to be "poor, barefoot AND pregnant", which is not a crime even if they were to have been found in such a condition.
People like duaneh1 forget about the People's Temple (jim jones) massacre where 922 people were murdered, and ONE senator who went to help and bring people back who wanted to come home.
Laurie,
Confusing the public to make the numbers look smaller reduces the size of the problem politicians will need to explain to the public someday.
I am not the only person that can see the $12 million is a BS number. Paul Anthony has leaned towards the state more than the FLDS in all his reporting and he pointed out what BS those numbers are.
I can only guess WHY Texas wanted to raid the ranch. From reading WHY Hilderbran changed the laws, that guess is most in West Texas did not like them.
or
Maybe like the "Westcliffers" you met, those "folks... do not want the FLDS in the hood".
I personally do not recall ever saying Flora was behind the crank calls. She might have been an influence or connection used by Rozita.
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KDP
A case is Never unworthy! But I guess according to you an regina, you think FLDS children are real and the money to provide protection for underage girls, being married and having children to you is a waste?
Regina said:
When I think of the real goods and services that money could have been used for....for real people with real, true needs...
The difference that could have been made in people's lives that want and need services.
So your both saying Flds children like Merrianne Jeffs who was married to Warren Jeffs at 12yrs old is worthless? That Teresa Jeffs being married to Raymond at age 14 was worthless.
That the girl who had the baby in June and hadnt turned 17 yet and was married at 14,, she is worthless to??
None of these girls were of legal consent to marry anyone at those ages!
Ron,
Sorry to tell you, but if someone is pro FLDS she wont take it, she has passed part of her life talking to FLDS bigots... That is what we see when we hear her talk. I have spoken to many FLDS, dont think because I know pliggy then i know all about FLDS. And they are NOT like "banking on heaven" says they are. They are smart, they are hard workers, they are responsible.
I cant generalize they all are because I dont know them all, just like you dont either or she doesnt either. FLDS religion is what the scriptures say, not what you think it is because of what you see or hear.
Do you know Carolyn Jessops life before her best seller?
How come 20 leave the group and people believe them more than the thoulsands that stay!!
Its incredible.
And then this lady talks, about people she does not even know... like if they where garbage.......
And she calls herself humanitarian for what she does?
BS!!!
You see, you have to get out of "America" travel to different places, know all kinds of different people to say that you "understand" what is happening in the world.
I am not FLDS, and I couldnt be, to tell you the truth I dont agree with poligamy, or believe in Christ, or could live in such a strict enviroment. But I do respect others for what they believe in.
I dont insult them when they dont agree with me (just when they insult me).
So to tell you the truth....
I believe NO FLDS PERSON WILL OPEN THEIR DOOR TO THEIR HOUSE to Laurie, like they would to others, so NO Ron, I dont think she has talked to FLDS, I know for sure that she has spoken to ex, or anti FLDS, or even people who want to be FLDS and have NEVER been...
FYI, I am agnostic. I don't belong to any religion and have a lot to say against many religious beliefs, especially Protestant evangelical loons and Muslim Fundamentalism.
There is much about the FLDS that I don’t agree with along with plenty of other religious beliefs, but they are not trying to force their views down anyone’s throat and are a rather peaceful and hardworking group of folks. If a few violated the age of consent laws, the Justice system should give them as much of a fair shake as anyone else facing similar allegations. But in Schleicher County, it is not going to happen, if they end up going to trial, the jurors will have already made up their minds before the proceedings even start, simply because they are FLDS.
Bush’s speech in the UN where he calls “religious freedom the foundation of a healthy society”, what a sick joke!
The attitudes and hateful quotes by the this Sheriff Jobo and locals in the Westcliffe are especially appalling.
Ron, the reason you don’t see the FLDS men or as you put it “cockroaches” that much is because they are out working on jobs all over Texas and the US in order to support their women and children and pay the legal bills they are racking up. I guess you didn’t bother to find that out though. They turned themselves in promptly though didn’t they!
Do you really beleive a girl that age would say NO to marriage??? And if she did, then what?
They take her to a hiding house like they did jannetta jeffs till she said okay?
Oh mom and dad say if she doesn't agree the whole family will be kicked out?
And if they decided to run, where would they go? These girls are in Texas 3miles from a main road, which is basically a highway.
It's 30 miles either direction to the nearest town. Merrill Jessop performed or took part with is own daughters underage to be married. Of course for Merrill , Merriane being married to Warren Jeffs was a feather in HIS cap.
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maayan said:
How come 20 leave the group and people believe them more than the thoulsands that stay!!
Its incredible.
******************
First of all there are a hell of alot more than 20!
Second, Do you think Laurie is the only person who has done interviews, made a movie, written books about Flds? Investigators, Journalists, Authors with personal interviews and NOT just with Carolyn and Flora!
Your very naive Maayan and immature and it shows.
By the way, I lost TWO uncles who were killed trying to free Jews in Germany. As did Im sure lots of American soldiers.
Your so Pro Flds and they are doing exactly the same thing Hitler did Germany.
Hitler wanted pure seed and could only keep pure seed by destroying the Jew.
Warren Jeffs has pounded this pure seed business into the heads of his people.
Hilter started the Nazi's with youth camps.
Warren has done the same thing.
In fact Warren Jeffs admired Hitler!
So before you start throwing out that UGLY damn word Nazi's about real people caring about FLDS children, you might Learn History
duaneh
Your kidding right? First of all any trial wont be held in El Dorado.
You do have religious freedom as long as you break the law (polygamy, bigamy) or have sex with underage girls.
No religion has a right to abuse or harm another person because of their belief.
I was looking in different newspapers this morning around Texas. I counted 25 who reported just this week alone of 25 men convicted of Sexual Assault, Rape,
Sexual assault with a minor. They were all convicted not less than 15 yrs, one will be in prison 35yrs.
Of course it didn't give their religions.
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duaneh1
Did they turn themselves in promptly this time??? NO they didn't. 12 days it took for them to turn themselves in.
Try again buddy! So you are saying all but 4 men left the day after the raid, to go work? LOL
duaneh, here is a tip for you, HAD they followed the LAW of marital age, they wouldnt have all those legal bills now would they????
Flds knew in 2005 the laws changed, there was NO excuse for not following them.
Ron in Houston said...
I know the FLDS love to say they're not like the Centennials or the LaBaron's or any of those other break away groups but the reality is that they are much more alike than different.
The only real differences are the levels of insanity of their prophets.
And you've never met or talked to anybody from either group so you're a real expert with all your hearsay.
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harley said: "No religion has a right to abuse or harm another person because of their belief."
So why is your religion of CPS Femi-nazi-ism abusing and harming us because of our belief?
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Ron in Houston said...
harley
Just curious - are you FLDS/ex-FLDS or just someone on the internet?
why don't you answer the question, harley?
Laurie... said...
cheese,
Nobody cares about your "beliefs
big deal
Cheese I answered the question. NO im not nor have I ever been Flds.
Cheese it would be rather hard for me to a nazi, lol
Go shred yourself!
Cheese it would also be hard for me to be any feminist, since I'm male. But your damn right, Every human should be able to think for themselves without someone forcing slavery on them with fear.
cheese
Why do you give a tinker's damn whether Harley answers the question or not?
I'm just curious. If Harley wants to respond he will.
BTW - when you hear directly from the source of the words then it's not hearsay. So, Carolyn Jessop's book are her own words. The statements of people in Laurie's movie are not hearsay.
Now whether what's said is credible is another question.
Laurie
you can call me whatever you want, you can continue writing in spanish so people wont understand what you want to say, but you know what, you are still the same fungus!! You are soooooooo full of it that you have to hide a camera to talk about FLDS cause they wont let you in.
Instead, people from 20/20, CNN etc could enter as easy as 1,2,3...........
And you claim you know them......
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I love habanero, thank you!!!
Please stop drinking, I think we have to send you the safety net for your alcohol problem., This is getting serious....
I think the jump you made into the pigs really afected you.
How much tequila did you drink when you felt strong when you saw a naked man on a basinet???
ROFL HAHAHAHA
Duaneh1 just called fundamentalist Protestants "loons." I'm shocked.
Why you miserable bigoted sorry a@@ed piece of crap.
ron,
so you are admitting that you have never met or talked to anyone from the FLDS Church, and that all of your vitriol is coming from what you have "heard". Right?
Maayan
I'm all for cutting religions some slack. FLDS believe that blacks have a special curse? It's stupid but as long as they don't abuse blacks then who cares. You think shellfish are an abomination? OK, that doesn't hurt anyone and saves more crabs for me.
It's when religion crosses the line that it needs to be smacked down. If you don't want to eat pork or shellfish then fine, but when you think it's your G_d given right to stone adulterers or homosexuals then you need to be smacked down.
I'm actually on the liberal end of the anti-FLDS. You want to practice adult polygamist marriage? Well, it may negatively impact women, but if that's what an adult woman really wants, then it's none of my business.
However, when you have a belief and a pattern (big or small, it doesn't matter) of knocking up teen age girls in the name of religion then it's basically time for society to do a collective smack down on that group.
cheese
I'm directly conversing with you. I believe you're FLDS, so yes I've directly talked to FLDS members.
I just find the heretics more credible than you and Pliggy. No offense, but that's how I see it.
harley said...
Cheese it would also be hard for me to be any feminist, since I'm male. But your damn right, Every human should be able to think for themselves without someone forcing slavery on them with fear.
harley, I didn't say 'you' were a woman I infered that you were a member of the 'CPS Femi-nazi-ism church." Go ride yourself.
Laurie;
"Nobody cares about your "beliefs".
Your "practices" are illegal, and that's what the law is going after."
Evidently you missed what Voss told us at the 14 day hearing, or ave mastered a selective memory.
cheese
For the record I don't hate you. I've never met you and you might be a really wonderful person.
You just seem to have a set of beliefs that would fit more with a bunch of bronze age goat herders than with the US in the 21st century.
Ron:
"It's when religion crosses the line that it needs to be smacked down.
... when you have a belief and a pattern ...it's basically time for society to do a collective smack down on that group."
Guilt by association for an entire group the way I read this. Rather revealing!
kbp
Seriously, how is that guilt by association? Treatment of a group does not automatically lead to persecution of the individual.
The government is justified in investigating the FLDS. Even if Pliggy were still a member of the FLDS he would be totally unaffected by the government investigating the FLDS.
I've never advocated for the wholesale removal of children because the parents have unusual religious beliefs. I don't agree with the mass round up of children.
Making an underage bride submit to a DNA test? That's a whole different story.
What association Kdp?
This is a CULT pure and simple. Utah knew it, Arizona knew it. They just didn't give a damn.
FLDS is actually a Family Cult! Not a religious one. A "Real" church allows anyone to come or join.
A real Church doesn't keep its members behind walled cities. Unless you Monks, which we know FLDS isn't.
A real church from what I've seen to out into the world and tell others about God. Flds never did any kind of "missionary" work.
Or witnessing of any kind , except to each other, with unlivable rules and break those rules set down by the "profit" you were no longer allowed to live in the walled houses.
OH and Hey, you even get your Family and Children taken away in this church.
Yeah, it sounds like the life any dimwit would want to live!
I don't have a religion, but I do beleive there is a Holy God, and I the so called Prophets who have led Flds, will have MUCH to answer for.
Really Pitiful actually. Everyone of these men KNOW they can't support all those wives and children without sucking off the government.
Few finish school, few have a college education.
Cheese , you really lay the propaganda on thick don't you? lol
That's what it is and you know it!
Persecution complex because you can't get your way, or follow the law like everyone else.
Ron,
Your comment, evidently in an effort to clarify what your previous comment meant, is a re-write.
Original:
"religion... needs to be smacked down.
... when you have a belief ...do a collective smack down on that group."
Re-write:
"The government is justified in investigating"
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