Today is . . .
Photo by Trent Nelson. Warren Jeffs looks at FLDS members seated in courtroom during a hearing in St. George in 2007.
. . . Warren Jeffs' birthday, the third he has marked in custody. Jeffs, currently in custody in the Mohave County Jail in Kingman, turns 53 today.
According to Trish Carter, Mohave County sheriff's spokeswoman, Warren is overall in good health. He is eating three meals a day. Jeffs is still limited to prayer sessions of 15 minutes, twice a day, to keep him from wearing out his knees.
Jail logs show he has had a steady stream of visitors, mostly wives. Naomi, Patricia, Ruthie, Mildred, Kathleen.
But here's the interesting thing: On Oct. 19, Jeffs was visited by Fredrick Jessop (That's Merril) and Wendell Nielsen. They also visited him on Aug. 31.
68 Comments:
Did you send warren a birthday cake brooke?
This guy is a child rapist, who preaches child rape! Of course Merrill Jessop and Wendell Nielson visited him, Warren is the Prophet!
Where do you think Merrill has been since the raid? Certainly NOT in Texas. Let's see to good old Merrill it was better to run, and let his little girl go to CPS custody than appear in court with his and answer questions!
He and Barbara BOTH should be Ashamed of themselves! They talk about how important children are in FLDS and then sacrifice their own children for DAMN PROPHET!
harley, do you know these people personally? Where's all this hatred coming from? You don't know the details. You've read some tabloids and have gotten all riled up.
Personally, I don't understand this hatred you display. Perhaps you can explain it. Do you feel personally wronged in some way by Warren Jeffs and his extended family (the FLDS)? Is it so hard to just wish someone a happy birthday, even a sinner?
This post has been removed by the author.
ztg,
I'm not angry at all. I happen to be a father of 4 children. It completely exasperates me that grown adult men would take part in, or allow such things to happen to underage girls! Jeffs was convicted! And he is where he should be. He himself married a 12yr old child! I have NO compassion for such men or their wives who go along with such actions, and use the word GOD as their shield!
Ziggy, That's pretty rich coming from the likes of you. After some indictee's convictions will you be bucking for Bishop or just white supremacist separatist?
Zig, put your hand on your PC screen and feel the warmth of my sincerity, Hee,hee!
Happy birthday Warren
Now that you’re Fifty Three
Gathering friends to celebrate
Was easier when you were free
I thought I’d do something special
So I made you up a cake
Searching, they took out the files
And with them, the plan for escape.
I wanted to buy just the right gift
That says just how much I do care
I found these specialty knee pads
To increase the time of your prayer
I immediately knew they were perfect
Thanked God that he did reveal
I Couldn’t afford the ideal gift
The victory of your appeal
by choice2
Hell yeah Merril and Wendell visited him. The whole "let's "interview" the people from Texas" mess is not so much to help Warren (Mohave County isn't going to use the Texas evidence) as it is a run up to the defense of the 12 FLDS chosen.
ztg
I have to say I agree with Harley. As the father of a 10 year old girl, Warren just disgusts me. I really don't care what a wonderful person people like Pliggy say he is.
He's where he needs to be. Hopefully Texas will keep him there longer and put in a few of his friends.
Happy Birthday, Warren.
Here's looking at five to life. Times two.
To be continued.
I'm not really sure how I feel about Warren Jeffs, but I certainly don't think he is a monster as many want to portray....
I do think jail has to terribly difficult for him.......and if I'm not sure about Warren Jeffs, I'm really unsure about how I feel about long jail terms for non-violent crimes.....it just seems we can do a better job in our advanced world...no weapons, no drugs, no violence.....
Anyway, as ziggy says....wishing a person a Happy Birthday is sort of a basic nicety we extend to everyone....
So Happy Birthday, Mr. Jeffs...if you read these blogs, there are many of us asking God to watch over you and give you peace.....
I see Ron, so you and Harley are internalizing the story of Jeffs and his alleged underage marriages in your own lives. How special.
Just repeat to yourself, "I am not FLDS, I am not FLDS...this will never happen to me or my daughter[s]."
One point: neither of you would ever be an adequate jury pick.
Second point: Seeing that your concept of life is myopically limited to contemporary morality, can you try to give me your reaction, if I were to tell you that one of your ancestors married a young 14 year old girl once -- with the approval of the whole community (or tribe of cave-dwellers or whatever...).
Before I even asked myself this question I share here, I anticipated many would respond with words like "brainwashed", "dominated"...
My question is how many of the young brides from within the 10,000+/- FLDS members have "escaped" because they were victims of such?
I've read of claims they were abused by a few of the men, their families forced them to marry...
The majority, if "brainwashed", appear to live happily ever after when compared to the balance of this nation.
I have no interest in seeing any under 18 YO in a marriage that is consummated, and really do not care to see then betrothed either, but that's my opinion and I know young girls can fall in such relationships and be happy.
So, does anyone have a count of heads here, or is it that they just will not know they are victims who should complain until some can re-program them?
Happy birthday, Pol Pot, rericson? Is there anyone too low for your to rationalize away? Yeah, he just came from a misunderstood culture. Let's NEGOTIATE with them.
And sentences end with just one of these >.<
Here's something for harley and Ron to get riled up about: How about all those 13 year old hookers in Dallas and other cities you hear about on the news. What a horrible culture you guys have out there in the real world, thinks the exasperrated FLDS man.
It's a dirty little secret: society's promiscuous juvenile girls. Biology makes some of them go into heat unavoidably. Some cultures deal with this problem by making them marry and have kids. And yes, sometimes things go wrong, like the case with Alissa Wall, perhaps mistakes were made, that the culture has to deal with, and learn from, perhaps with a little help rather than public witchhunts.
So Ron, why don't you fix up Houston before trying to fix up FLDS-vill.
ztg,
why don't you go take a flying leap off a tall building. I can tell you have NO children.
First of all, I'm against ANY 12-16 yr old CHILD being married anywhere in the United States.
Second, Warren Jeffs married and conceived a child with Loretta Jeffs who was 12 when he married her.
Third, A child 12-16 in Texas doesn't legally have a right to consent to marriage, OR sex.
Does it happen, yes it does. Is Texas cracking down on it, YES it is. And not just with Flds, with whites, blacks, mexicans, religions, beleivers, non believers, buddists, monks, baptists, methodists, you name Texas is enforcing the laws.
I am raising my boys to RESPECT women and their rights. When they are old enough to date girls which will be 17, they will understand women are not sex object, but human beings and should be treated as such.
When you have children you can teach them any damn thing you want.
But, My boys will also respect the Law.
Ztg,
If Utah and Arizona had cleaned up their own damn mess for the past 100yrs, Texas wouldn't be dealing with this now would they??
Naturally Rericson would wish a happy birthday to convicted perverted 53 yr old man in prison who screwed his 12 yr old wife! So typical of you Rericson, no wonder Ron says you always defend the abuser and leave the emotional trauma and pain as it means NOTHING to their victim. Your a real piece of work lady!
harley,
if you were sincerely against the flds belief system, you would make valid and truthful comments rather than just spew the most sensational hateful thing that comes to your mind.
harley said...
"Naturally Rericson would wish a happy birthday to convicted perverted 53 yr old man in prison who screwed his 12 yr old wife! So typical of you Rericson, no wonder Ron says you always defend the abuser and leave the emotional trauma and pain as it means NOTHING to their victim. Your a real piece of work lady!"
This harley claims to be a man with 4 children, but it sound like FLORA again. Just can't help repeating herself over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over ................................................................................................................and over and over and over and over ....
ztg
One point: neither of you would ever be an adequate jury pick.
Really, do ya think?
Second point: Seeing that your concept of life is myopically limited to contemporary morality, can you try to give me your reaction, if I were to tell you that one of your ancestors married a young 14 year old girl once -- with the approval of the whole community (or tribe of cave-dwellers or whatever...).
Well, societies used to practice infanticide, burning witches, slavery, and various other ills. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if I had that in my ancestral past. Even if I had it in the past, it still doesn't make it right, then or now.
that the culture has to deal with, and learn from, perhaps with a little help rather than public witchhunts
So, society is supposed to say, poor Warren he just needs to be educated? He knew he was breaking laws. He practiced his wacky religion in absolute defiance of the laws. He and anyone else who did that are going to suffer consequences. Calling that a witch hunt is simply BS.
It's a dirty little secret: society's promiscuous juvenile girls.
I don't think it's dirty or a secret. Teenagers sexuality matures prior to their executive decision making.
Society will however deal with older adults who attempt to take advantage of this flaw in our biology.
Ztg you really are just full of crap. If society were "witch hunting" Jeffs' religion, he'd be being brought up on charges of having so many wives. Society for a long time has said to the FLDS, "stop knocking up teenagers." The FLDS for a long time and said, "screw you, this is our religion and we're going to keep doing it." That's not a witch hunt. That is society enforcing it's laws. If a 52 year old Baptist, Catholic, or atheist man knocked up a 12 year old they are going to be prosecuted.
So out of 10,000+ FLDS you've got some maybe 30 prosecutions. Man, that's some crappy witch hunt.
rericson said: " Anyway, as ziggy says....wishing a person a Happy Birthday is sort of a basic nicety we extend to everyone....
So Happy Birthday, Mr. Jeffs...if you read these blogs, there are many of us asking God to watch over you and give you peace....."
Do you remember the young girl who when asked how old she was she looked at her husband to find out the answer?
or do you remember the young children being asked when their birthday was and they didn't know the answer?
I hope you pray that your God finds them peace as well. I hope you wish them Happy Birthday.
Mind games have a lasting affect don't you think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-F1u2MgnUo
If you have trouble figuring out the link it is a clip from the Movie titled the Village the alternate ending.
cheese
Yeah, and you're a sock puppet for Pliggy.
Ron: So out of 10,000+ FLDS you've got some maybe 30 prosecutions. Man, that's some crappy witch hunt.
On this I will agree. And boy are Texans pissed they couldn't keep all 460 of those children, huh. I mean, they were all being blistered and raped at night, right? All the ritual child sacrifices, the virgin temple consecrations, etc..
Nah, not a witchhunt. Just routine law enforcment. They do it to the Mexicans all the time, as well as the inner city. I mean, just go to any Texas metropolis. They're raiding whole communities night and day...every time there's alleged to be some 12 year old hooker advertising her services on the Austin craigslist board.
Do you remember the young girl who when asked how old she was she looked at her husband to find out the answer?
She was looking to see whether she should respond at all. They're all told correctly, you don't talk to authorities, as it could be used against you, no matter what you say. http://www.regent.edu/admin/media/schlaw/LawPreview/
As for her age, of course, CPS cynically thought she was hiding her age of course. Because 26 of these adults with children were actually teenagers, right? If I'm not mistaken she turned out to be 18 after all!
Morons.
BTW, I thought the village was a beautiful movie. Too bad all villages aren't as pristine and serene as the one in "the village." (minus the "off" looking village idiot of course)
ztg
Once again you've proven just how full of crap you are.
The children of most religions don't live in gated compounds with security towers. They don't get coached to say "I'm 18" when asked a simple question like their age.
I don't support the round up, but then again, I sort of understand why it happened.
ztg
Yeah, you're right. When the authorities come knocking it's many times a good idea to say nothing.
However, when CPS comes knocking because of a report of abuse and you decide to "clam" up, I don't think you really can complain when they take your kids into custody.
Ok, Ron. If you say so. I know the Constitution doesn't apply when it comes to kids. They all belong to the state. The framers were just barbarians who thought children were just "property."
BTW, you mentioned before that your ancestors probably all got married at 14 before a certain date long ago. But they were barbarians too. They after all practiced "infanticide." We on the other hand, live in the age of enlightment.
BTW, infancticide's still practiced. Ever heard of partial birth abortions? Geeze, maybe we're not all that enlightened after all. Certainly Ron's son is going to curse him one day as just a pre-enlightenment era "barbarian." Maybe then we'll throw 18 year olds in prison for having sex. Morals change over time, don't they? The Supreme court calls it the "evolving standards of decency." I guess when it comes to those nonviolent offenses, that reric mentioned, right and wrong isn't so absolute after all. It's just whatever those in authority deem it to be at the time.
They don't get coached to say "I'm 18" when asked a simple question like their age.
Yes, and they also forged their ID, right, Ron?
Ron, "security towerS"?? Please. What they call a "guard tower" is a construction office that usually sits empty.
Anyway, if you followed Angie Voss' testimony, the children didn't "clam up." They told the truth, but because it wasn't the "truth" that Angie wanted to hear, she said they were "lying."
We all are struggling with this set of issues and understanding the folks who are part of this community.
We all come to these boards for a variety of reasons...which shift and change over the months....
One thing I am fairly certain of is that each person who consistently comes here, cares deeply, on some level, about people, children, and their welfare....we may draw different conclusions, but we all care....
This is a thread about a mans' birthday....And in the FLDS culture, there aren't many holidays that are celebrated...but birthdays are...they are important, special days....
And whether Warren Jeffs has made mistakes, he is human afterall, or not, he is someone that is admired, revered, loved, by this community of people that we all care about....and many of the folks from the community read these blogs....
I know from my emails, that this particular blog and discussion is particularly painful for them to read...this isn't an attack or disagreement about their beliefs, or doctrine...this is a set of direct attacks against an individual they care deeply about....
Maybe we could all move our discussions to a different thread?
Maybe we should work at remembering that human beings whose lives are affected in very real and personal ways by all this, read these posts and are hurt by them...and I really don't think any one of us intentionally want to hurt anyone else.....
Ron likes to repeat every anti-FLDS claim as fact, even if it's already been debunked to him (i.e. the "lying about ages" BS). One of these days he'll start claiming they practice infanticide.
Regina, move this discussion to another thread, because some FLDS that read this thread might have to read some truth about the sicko they allow to rule their lives???? It's about time they read this and realize what a mistake they have made by allowing an insane person to dictate every aspect of their lives. Keep posting the truth, if they read it long enough maybe they will decide to use the brains God gave them.
rericson said:
"I know from my emails, that this particular blog and discussion is particularly painful for them to read... Maybe we could all move our discussions to a different thread? "
Regina, What stops you from repeating your oft repeated recommendation to others on this list that they ignore what they don't like?
Shall we research the pedophile priests in prison and put them on our birthday calendar, too?
The comments on this blog are bad for most people's mental health, not just the stray FLDSer with time at a computer.
I'm not FLDS but the way some of the hate filled people here speak about him reminds me quite a lot of the way people used to speak of Joseph Smith in his day. They even falsely imprisioned him too.
rericson said:"Maybe we could all move our discussions to a different thread?
Maybe we should work at remembering that human beings whose lives are affected in very real and personal ways by all this, read these posts and are hurt by them...and I really don't think any one of us intentionally want to hurt anyone else....."
Are you concerned about everyones feelings or just those that support the Prophet?
Were you concerned about Carolyns, Pams, Ruths, Pennies, Johnny Jessop,Gideon Barlow or anyone else who might have read this blog?
I say lets not change any rules for the birthday boy thread.
Harley:
"If Utah and Arizona had cleaned up their own damn mess for the past 100yrs, Texas wouldn't be dealing with this now would they??"
Is Harley blaming Utah and Arizona for the young prostitutes "Z" mentioned above?
***
Harley:
"...convicted perverted 53 yr old man in prison who screwed his 12 yr old wife!"
Is Harley trying to tell the world someone had sexual intimacy with a 12 YO?
the reason for the gates and towers, I think, is to prevent people like that fiend who walked in on that amish community and murdered a dozen or so children while they were at school.
Walton:
"...Do you remember the young girl who when asked how old she was she looked at her husband to find out the answer?"
The records indicate she gave a truthful answer, which included her DOB of March 24, 1990.. (top of page 7)
She also identified the age of her baby and that she was the 4th wife, information which indicated the child was conceived before she had reached the age of consent, and that her marriage could show it was a crime.
Why CPS looked to make her a liar after she provided information that might identify a crime is evidently just to make it a more damning crime in the media, I guess.
The way you used that event illustrates just how much the BS that Texas CPS passed along was believed by the public.
I did not take it that you really took a strong position on the matter, just that the inaccuracies planted in the media accomplished their intent even on the more open minded readers.
They have the right to have as many gates & "guard houses" as they want.
The ONLY one to complain of such was "Sarah".
That makes the total ZERO COMPLAINTS.
When's Charles Manson's birthday, so Brooke and Rericson and Pliggy can wish them a happy birthday to! Or let them honor Jim Jones of The Peoples Temple, only 922 people murdered who followed that whacko!
Like Rericson, they just "made" mistakes right?
Some of you people are just as whacked as Warren Jeffs and the two other criminals I just mentioned.
No, Cheese Im Not Flora Jessop, but I can clearly see how paranoid FLDS followers are!
Lucille, Warren Jeffs did have sex with 12yr old, and they courts have picture of him when the baby was born. That I trust is "evidence".
No, I don't blame Utah and Arizona for prostitutes, I blame them for not taking a stronger initative in doing something about polygamists groups in their states and allowing such incidences to continue.
By the way Lucille, your always asking questions, so here is one for you. Polygamy is illegal in every state as is bigamy.
Now, they call all the extra wives, "celestial" wives, which means they aren't really married to the men they live with.
So wouldn't you call all those little girls having sex with Adult Men prostitutes? Are you would call them Assualt Victims?
I would like Brooke to Answer this question Also.
Lucille, Warren Jeffs did have sex with 12yr old, and they courts have picture of him when the baby was born. That I trust is "evidence".
I think you mean to address KBP and not me. But nonetheless, I'm curious - which 12 year old are you thinking of, and which baby? When was the baby born?
WC
Honestly, I don't fault them having gates and towers because I know that religious hatred is strong and deep.
However, it's just strange to a bunch of secular CPS workers.
A bunch of folks like to attribute it to religious hatred of the FLDS, but I feel pretty certain it wouldn't have mattered what group it was, CPS would have acted that way with just about any group living in a compound.
Lucille
Man you really, really, need to work on improving your critical reading skills.
I didn't say lying about their age. I said being coached about what they say.
Actually, if you look back in some of my posts I debunked the whole baby graveyard rumor.
This is all in Texas
2001
Children born to mothers under 18 – 19,721
Abortions to mothers under 20 – 11,021 (302 under 15)
Marriages to teenage girls – 17,497 (109 under 15)
2002
Children born to mothers under 18 – 19,704
Abortions to mothers under 20 - 10,800 (264 under 15)
Marriages to teenage girls - 15,826 (90 under 15)
2003
Children born to mothers under 18 – 19,237
Abortions to mothers under 20 – 10,649 (264 under 15)
Marriages to teenage girls – 15,204 (75 under 15)
2004
Children born to mothers under 18 – 19,247
Abortions to mothers under 20 – 9,807 (185 under 15)
Marriages to teenage girls – 14,428 (76 under 15)
2005
Children born to mothers under 18 – 18,988
Abortions to mothers under 20 – 9,830 (207 under 15)
Marriages to teenage girls – 13,372 (49 under 15)
2006
Children born to mothers under 18 – (N/A)
Abortions to teenage mothers- 10,253 (224 under 15)
Marriages to teenage girls - 10, 209 (6 under 15)
Hildebran was right! Sure do want to stop that MARRIAGE stuff. You know, the commitment to fulfill specific duties to one another and to children.
Marriage, the crime of the ages. You can get on the FBI top ten most wanted for it, get sentenced to 10 years to life for performing the ceremony and two years later giving them council to stay together.
This blog has become a complete waste of time for me. Circular worthless buffoonery.
Pliggy,
but it's an entertaining ride round the circle, eh?
Harley:
"Lucille, Warren Jeffs did have sex with 12yr old, and they courts have picture of him when the baby was born. That I trust is "evidence"."
Your stating such is merely the supposition that it is "evidence". Are you SOURCELESS on this claim also?
"No, I don't blame Utah and Arizona for prostitutes, I blame them for not taking a stronger initative in doing something about polygamists groups in their states and allowing such incidences to continue."
I see! So your solution is to cure the problems one step at a time by categorizing them into religions and then raiding entire communities to uncover any violations. Go after those you can using the NEW marriage laws first. You may have 9 down, and millions to go!!
" So wouldn't you call all those little girls having sex with Adult Men prostitutes? Are you would call them Assault Victims?"
If you're calling them "prostitutes", it appears your definition could include all women within marriages and any intimate relationships.
Depending upon what you mean by "little girls", it is possible they are "assault victims". If they are under the age of consent and complain, I'd certainly classify them that way.
Ron:
"A bunch of folks like to attribute it to religious hatred of the FLDS, but I feel pretty certain it wouldn't have mattered what group it was, CPS would have acted that way with just about any group living in a compound".
Tell that to Hilderbran and ALL involved in the 5+ day planning!
kbp,
Thanks for the link.
I am not sure I am reading this right but on that same page(7) and I believe paragraph 7 it states that the young girl did NOT know her own age.
Thanks for your help.
I said being coached about what they say.
If you say you think that they were coached to say they were 18 then you are implying one of two things - that they are indeed 18 or over but don't have the mental capacity to remember what their actual age is, or that they are not yet 18 and are lying. Which one did you mean?
Consider the source and what their objectives were!
Actually, if you look back in some of my posts I debunked the whole baby graveyard rumor.
Here you prove you are the one lacking reading comprehension. Either that or you don't grasp a little thing called "hyperbole".
Lucille
That's part of your problem, you're all hyperbole and no facts.
As I expected, you dance around answering my question. Typical for you.
"If I'm not mistaken she turned out to be 18 after all!"
I believe Ziggy and kpb are mistaken.
If she was 18, how come her mama gave CPS the same birthdate, but in 1991 rather than 1990? (Check the original petition and the Order for Severence)
If she was 18, how come no one corrected the New York Times Magazine when they reported she was 17 after one of their photographers was permitted in her mother's home?
Either way, she was only 15 or 16 when her child was conceived. When her husband goes to trial, we'll see what year of birth is on her birth certificate.
Lucille said...
“Maybe we should work at remembering that human beings whose lives are affected in very real and personal ways by all this, read these posts and are hurt by them.”
I completely agree with you, but I find it ironic that the FLDS are asking for this kind of consideration when they definitely do not extend the same to people they disagree with. Where is your outrage when the FLDS call young girls forced into a marriage they don’t want a whore or men that were kicked for disagreeing with FLDS leadership “adulterers” or even men like the Barlow brothers who were kicked out for no reason at all. Didn’t Louis Barlow die completely alone? I guess the FLDS were real concerned about the “human” with “feelings” then?
I could find a better sense of morality in a cracker-jack box than most FLDS learn their whole lives.
PA, that's not me you're quoting, that's Rericson.
Also, neither her nor I are FLDS members, so it's not a question of "the FLDS are asking for this kind of consideration".
Lucille said...
PA, that's not me you're quoting, that's Rericson.
Sorry bout that.
I just assumed you were affiliated somehow because you consistently apologize for them and seem to have some inside information.
This post has been removed by the author.
Thank you for sharing your insight.
Good catch Betty! I hope the FLDS learn from this experience, never to talk to CPS (because they'll cajole you into incriminating yourself and your loved ones), and always number their apartments.
Numbering the apartments sounds like a good idea.
Not having sex with underage persons is another good idea for consideration.
Lucille
I generally just avoid answering your questions since you're largely an ignorant troll. I never made any comment on whether they were telling the truth or not and frankly I don't believe anyone can prove that no one lied about their age. All I said is that they were coached.
Honestly it doesn't matter whether they were telling the truth about being 18 or not. When a CPS worker hears someone else coaching someone their radar will be on red alert.
Well, they can, but if they believe they are within their Constitutional rights, then they'll have to take that risk. If they treat their wives well (even the "underage" ones), then I doubt the wives will testify against them. After that two things can happen: 1) they get sentenced to live out their days and die in prison, and become martyrs, or 2) they appeal the unConstitutional law, (or the unConstitutional raid on their privacy) and get their setences overturned.
ztg
I'll be the first to admit that I admire your optimism.
However, remember, we're talking about Texas. We elect judges who run on "tough on crime platforms."
Do you honestly believe that some Republican "tough on crime" justice is going to overturn a conviction of a polygamist having sex with a minor?
If you truly do, then I've got some land in Florida to sell you.
For all of you that support Jeffs as a prophet, how do you explain away the video in jail of Jeffs himself saying that he is not now or was he ever a prophet! He knew all along that he was just abusing the power that had been transferred to him by "divine revelation"! He's sick - he has impregnated underage girls and there are young men - one of them his own nephew - who say that they were sodomized by this "man of God" - on a continual basis in his office at the FLDS school. Please explain to me how this could be the will of God! He is a pedophile!!! For any who would like to view the video it's on youtube.
Ziggy,
They took that risk and here we are.
Are you familiar with Sharon "We close promptly at five even if it's a matter of life and death" Keller?
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