Hey neighbor!
Willie Jessop met today with the Schleicher County Commission, where he extended an invitation to come visit the ranch and help brainstorm ways the county and sect can become better neighbors.
More to the point, Jessop said the sect wasn't exactly tossing tea in the harbor but did feel it was not being fairly represented despite being the county's third largest taxpayer.
Why aren't any sect members called to serve on juries or boards? he asked.
Well, you can't blame the county for that. Until last April only a handful of the men living at the ranch had made any contact with county representatives. No one had registered to vote until after the raid.
Perhaps it is a new day in Schleicher County.
Willie extended an invitation to county officials to "mosiey" on out to the ranch to have a look around. Here's betting a few do.
Schleicher County Sheriff David Doran sat quietly until Willie's complaint about jury selection. Doran then explained the random-draw process.
Doran spoke up again after Willie said the sect wasn't trying to take over the local government. Doran pointed out that such fears were fueled last spring after Willie suggested that ranch residents would register to vote to get people of "integrity" into county offices.
Willie's response? He told Doran he did not think ranch residents voted for anyone ''but you.''
More to the point, Jessop said the sect wasn't exactly tossing tea in the harbor but did feel it was not being fairly represented despite being the county's third largest taxpayer.
Why aren't any sect members called to serve on juries or boards? he asked.
Well, you can't blame the county for that. Until last April only a handful of the men living at the ranch had made any contact with county representatives. No one had registered to vote until after the raid.
Perhaps it is a new day in Schleicher County.
Willie extended an invitation to county officials to "mosiey" on out to the ranch to have a look around. Here's betting a few do.
Schleicher County Sheriff David Doran sat quietly until Willie's complaint about jury selection. Doran then explained the random-draw process.
Doran spoke up again after Willie said the sect wasn't trying to take over the local government. Doran pointed out that such fears were fueled last spring after Willie suggested that ranch residents would register to vote to get people of "integrity" into county offices.
Willie's response? He told Doran he did not think ranch residents voted for anyone ''but you.''
287 Comments:
That makes perfect sense too. Folks at the ranch want Sheriff Doorknob right where he is -- right where he can be held accountable for his actions, not off where he can escape justice.
And I think Doran has just enough brain cells to realize from Willie's comment that the FLDS folks didn't vote for him out of respect and admiration for his part in the raid, but for some other ulterior motive. He was probably dead sure they wanted to stack the votes against him.
So why were they voting en masse to keep him in office? Pretty obvious. Have a good sleep there Sheriff sir!
I agree. Keep him prosecutable.
Sorry guys
You have all the wet dreams you want about Doran being prosecuted in connection with the FLDS, but wishing won't make it so.
Good move!
I am thinking invitations, dinner then informal meeting might be a good thing!
BRAVO!!!!!!
I am delighted!!!!!!!!
Talk, talk, talk...never let the dialogue die. Keep talking. Keep bringing issues to the table.
And document. Always document.
Follow up the invitation with one in writing. Follow that up with a phone call....
Engage them...talk with them....document everything...
When they come out for a visit, bring them back to an office/ meeting room area and have coffee and water and maybe some cheese and fruit ready and sit down...ask them what they thought...ask for opinion on different things...
Ask them to come back...
Maybe you can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, but you can turn enemies into allies...
You can, by example, show how to resolve differences, and answer questions, the right way....
And Willie strikes me as the perfect person to be out in front...he is likeable and affable and identifiable....
Brooke, thank you so much for staying atop all the little 'events'...for bringing them to light....for rounding out the story as it unfolds.....
Hopefully both sides can reduce the levels of mistrust.
Ron, It might take a good long time for that to happen....but talk is definitly the way to start building those underpinings!!!!!
YEAH!!!!!!!!
When the government serves the people you then have freedom.
When the people serve the government you then have tyranny!
Got any bright ideas on how we can bring the trust about, Ron?
The jest of this story is in Brookes few lines here:
Why aren't any sect members called to serve on juries or boards? he asked.
Well, you can't blame the county for that. Until last April only a handful of the men living at the ranch had made any contact with county representatives. No one had registered to vote until after the raid.
Willie knows there are trials coming and the jury pool will come from the county the ranch is in.
NONE of the members at the ranch can be on those juries because they are either related by blood or marriage.
Commissioners are voted in, not picked.
Willie needs to understand Texas isn't run like Utah or the twin cities.
Prof
Out of 2,500 registered voters in the county, only 50 voted from Flds.
Doran didn't initate the raid. But, as Sheriff his office was reqired to be involved.
So Flds had little to voting him back in as sheriff.
Ronny Ronny, it would be amazing if anyone doesn't take what you, my little friend, say with a grain or two of salt. After all, as a Family Law advocate, your living depends on the CPS child-hostage-taking industry, doesn't it? How about a little disclosure from you for a change...
I think Doran just admitted he feared that the FLDS intended to take over local government. That is very telling, and could be used to show a motive for the raid.
Z,
"Ronny Ronny, it would be amazing if anyone doesn't take what you, my little friend, say with a grain or two of salt. After all, as a Family Law advocate, your living depends on the CPS child-hostage-taking industry, doesn't it? How about a little disclosure from you for a change..."
I realize you are intellectually challenged Z, so I'll make this easy for you. Ron's living depends on marriages breaking up, not on CPS. CPS could be abolished tomorrow and Ron would still probably have more clients than he knows what to do with.
Sorry for butting in, Ron, but my brother in law is a lawyer in Family Law up here so I know what it consists of. Out of curiosity, do you hate it as much as he does?
Prof said...So why were they voting en masse to keep him in office? Pretty obvious. Have a good sleep there Sheriff sir!
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Oh come on! You don't really believe they voted for him, do you? And anyway, if he did anything illegal, it wouldn't matter if he was still in office or not. But if he did conspire with Flora or with someone else, I hope they nail him. ("They" being the feds, as the state won't do a damn thing.)
Rebeckah
I've pretty much immunized myself.
Ziggy while I do CPS work, Rebeckah is right, I'd still have work even if there never was another CPS kid. Besides dimwit I represent parents about half the time in CPS cases.
Why don't you lose the hatred over the government telling your racist, misogynist, homophobe ass that you can't screw around with 14 year old girls and get on with your very small life?
Harley, you said.
"Out of 2,500 registered voters in the county, only 50 voted from Flds."
You're credibility is about zero by now. You must be a CPS worker. Did you read the article or are you here to argue your point no matter what?
Read this here:
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_11438443
" He questioned why no FLDS had been called to serve on juries in the small county, which has a jury pool of 2,500.
Schleicher County Sheriff David Doran explained the random selection process, which draws jurists from voter's registration and drivers license records. About 140 FLDS members registered to vote after the April 3 raid on the ranch. "
Did you notice the part about 140 VOTERS? Just wondering where you got the 50 number from, or anything else you say.
Me
Are you dumb or is it you simply can't read.
Just because you have 140 registered voters doesn't mean they all voted. Harley said 50 VOTED.
Harley obviously lives somewhere out in that neck of the woods. I can pull the voter rolls and find out who voted in the last election. Apparently, Harley either did that or had someone look it up for him.
Me me me me me me me,
Maybe 140 YFZers registered to vote but only 50 actually voted?
Ron,
It's possible that Me has never voted and doesn't understand registering to vote vs. voting.
con cuidado
First Amendment, I can believe they voted for him. The other guy was not any better.
It is fantastic how Ron will slurp up the gospel of harley, but does not give the FLDS people any benefit of the doubt.
No Pliggy
I can read. I know this might be a little tough to get your very small mind around by the phrase "50 voted" is vastly different than "140 registered voters."
Did you get it or do I need to do it again more slowly?
I realize you are intellectually challenged Z, so I'll make this easy for you. Ron's living depends on marriages breaking up, not on CPS. CPS could be abolished tomorrow and Ron would still probably have more clients than he knows what to do with.-Rebeckah
---------
"Intellectually challenged"? Is that paddling upstream or going downstream? Why?
Why don't you lose the hatred over the government telling your racist, misogynist, homophobe ass that you can't screw around with 14 year old girls and get on with your very small life?
------
Good thing there is no conflict resolution involved with your profession, eh?
mmm kay.
You can read what? harleys comments?
Rubytuesday said:
"Good thing there is no conflict resolution involved with your profession, eh?"
Knowing when to use your conflict resolution skills is probably more important than whatever skills you possess.
Why don't you lose the hatred over the government telling your racist, misogynist, homophobe ass that you can't screw around with 14 year old girls and get on with your very small life?
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I know one thing if I was FLDS I wouldn't want the likes of you coming to my house to discuss communty issues. I'd throw you out on your ass.
Pliggy
You and I seem to be talking on vastly different wavelengths.
It seems that you have no idea what I'm referring to and apparently the same holds true for me.
I'd throw you out on your ass.
Well, that's a mighty big assumption that my ass would be anywhere near there.
Rubytuesday said:
"Good thing there is no conflict resolution involved with your profession, eh?"
Knowing when to use your conflict resolution skills is probably more important than whatever skills you possess.
--------
I know....when you get paid for it! rolls eyes
Ruby,
""Intellectually challenged"? Is that paddling upstream or going downstream? Why?"
You're right. I'm being an ass today. No matter how irritated I am with someone there's no excuse for demeaning them. I'm sorry, Zig. I think, Ruby, I'll take a break for the rest of the day and try to get my equilibrium back. Thanks for pointing out my "assness" in a neutral manner. ;)
I'd throw you out on your ass.
Well, that's a mighty big assumption that my ass would be anywhere near there.
--------
That is the topic of discussion. I know.....I know, you just presented an example of what NOT to do correct?
Rebeckah
Remember what he wrote on his blog before you go bashing yourself for your assness. I think given some of what Ziggy has written that "intellectually challenged" was actually quite charitable.
Besides, why worry about going upstream or downstream when you've got a big pile of crap blocking your path?
Ron,
I get your point, but I am also still trying to get better. I HATE being hypocritical. So for me to bash Regina for it, and then practice it, is mega-hypocrisy. So I have to hold myself to my own standards, even if I disagree with every fiber of my being with what someone else says. Besides, I think Z might actually be very bright. I really think he's probably a 16 year old trying desperately to appear mature and sophisticated. (I've dealt with a few young men in adolesence and something about Z sets off those vibes.)
Look Rubytuesday
You took a quote to someone that I have utter and complete contempt for and twisted it around.
You're free to make whatever connection in that head of yours you like.
Look Ron,
You are an adult and you are responsible for your own feelings and behavior. Just because you don't like something or some one doesn't give you a right to cause them harm. That is what I refer to as "abuse"!
Ruby,
"You are an adult and you are responsible for your own feelings and behavior. Just because you don't like something or some one doesn't give you a right to cause them harm. That is what I refer to as "abuse"!"
Just curious here, but if that's the case then why have you ignored Regina's "abuse"?
Look Ron,
You are an adult and you are responsible for your own feelings and behavior. Just because you don't like something or some one doesn't give you a right to cause them harm. That is what I refer to as "abuse"!
---------
This goes 24/7 Ron.......
Just curious here, but if that's the case then why have you ignored Regina's "abuse"?
----------
Because I am focusing on FLDS and mainstream.
Maybe this can be a lesson for us all.
The number of FLDS who voted was reported by the county.
50 Regisitered Flds voted in El Dorado election.
Now, since FLDS haven't made themselves public until After the raid, why would anyone in El Dorado bother asking them to do anything.
By the way, Brooke posted on SLT story, Willie talked to commissioners on a break from a commissioners meetings.
But on her blog, she makes it sound like he had a scheduled meeting with commissioners....
Way to Go Brooke,, twists and turns!
Rebeckah you asked me yesterday how do we go downstream, I responded. It takes awareness and it takes practice.
ROTFLMAO
Ruby, tell ya what...if I'm being abusive, you feel free to kick me, okay?????
I am not responsible for the fact that some people on this blogs are the human equivalent of a box'o rocks!!!!!
I am not responsible for the fact that some people on this blogs are the human equivalent of a box'o rocks!!!!!
Ruby kicks Rericson.......
Ok, Rebekah, let's put it this way. Ron is a leech on what we call society's (failed) institution of marriage. He's incensed there's actually a community of people among us who (gasp) 1) don't register their marriages; and 2) actually stay together!
"That's not good for business," Ron thinks to himself.
What a creep.
Why don't you lose the hatred over the government telling your racist, misogynist, homophobe ass that you can't screw around with 14 year old girls and get on with your very small life?
Obviously you don't have much of a life yourself, Ron. You spend nearly all of it railing against the FLDS on this obscure blog.
Envious perhaps?
Ruby,
"Rebeckah you asked me yesterday how do we go downstream, I responded. It takes awareness and it takes practice."
And I appreciate you helping me with the awareness part. I've asked people before to let me know how and why I trangress, but what I seem to have received instead is yet more accusations of using a "crutch".
By the way, Regina, just how are you different from Carolyn? Your complaint against me is that I have been offensive to someone within the FLDS. SHE has yet to find me offensive, but apparently your wisdom in this case trumps hers. Carolyn wants to save women who don't want to be saved and (gasp) so do you. You revile Carolyn for "hurting" people and yet you very, very publically attempt "tear me a new one" both here and on your blog. (And just in case you were wondering, you hurt me deeply in that initial vomit of hate and judgement. Now, I don't care because I see you for what you are. Then, I was very hurt.) You hold yourself as judge and jury in many cases, and you are just as wrong in my case as you claim Carolyn is in hers. So you go right on showing everyone just how trustworthy your judgement is. I'm sure everyone will be very impressed.
Z,
"He's incensed there's actually a community of people among us who (gasp) 1) don't register their marriages;"
Yeah, right, you're married...
ztgstmv, were those comments paddling great rapids upstream or going downstream?
This a 2 way street.....
Ziggy
I'm not the one that gets on here and tries to make a vain defense for sex with 14 year old girls. You calling me names is actually high praise.
Rubytuesday
In case you haven't figured it out by now, some folks are deserving of abuse. I don't see a whole lot of difference between Ziggy and some white supremacist pig.
Like I said you make whatever connection you want.
I found this on a website with stories by those who have left the LDS church. I find it very interesting...
http://www.exmormon.org
http://www.exmormon.org/whylft36.htm
"As a Mormon you believe that (in no particular order)...
Historical facts and opinions which go contrary to official Mormon teachings are by definition false and unworthy of study because they do not promote the your faith in the Church.
The final test of truthfulness is if you feel good about an issue ("burning in the bosom", warmth, elation).
Joseph Smith has done more for you and all of mankind than anyone, except Jesus Christ.
The Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, and D&C never contradict themselves or the Bible. They are all in perfect agreement. You accept at least one of the various explanations of the Church leaders.
The Bible has been altered by evil and inept men and is therefore unreliable (on its own) as the final word on Christian doctrine.
Having been to the temple, you are 95% percent of the way to the Celestial Kingdom and Godhood. You just need to endure to the end.
The secret temple ceremony is the same as was practiced in ancient Israel (and maybe even in the pyramids of Egypt, according to some Mormon apologetics). The Masons received elements of the ceremonies through an uninterrupted chain of masons, beginning with the masons of the temple of Solomon. God told Joseph Smith how to perform the ceremonies after Joseph saw the Masons do something similar.
The Church's doctrinal stance of polygamy, blacks and the priesthood, and the nature of God haven't changed in any significant way over the years since the Church began. For that matter, not a single significant doctrinal issue has changed.
It's OK for God to encourage man to commit deceit as he did when telling Abraham (in the Mormons' Book of Abraham) to deceive Pharaoh about his wife Sarah. God can do whatever he wants through his servants, even if it involves deceit. Joseph Smith (and more recent Apostles) has said that what is wrong in one circumstance can sometimes be, and often is, right under another. (Note: A very conservative Mormon may even assert that Abraham did not deceive Pharaoh in any way, and thereby brush aside having to deal with the issue.)
Non-Mormons belong to the Church of the Devil as it states in 2 Nephi, even (especially?) those that profess Christianity.
When an Apostle or Prophet says something that is accepted to be true, he is directly inspired by God. When he says something that turns out to be false, he was speaking as a man. But either way, it's no to matter you. These men will never lead you astray.
And you believe that...
The Book of Mormon is true and Joseph Smith was a prophet, and, since it comes from the Church, the Church and all its doctrines must be true. OR The Church must be true because it has had a good influence on your family. This helps you accept its official history and doctrines as being the truth.
The unique doctrines and ceremonies that you have as a Mormon are mandatory for the Godhood, to which you aspire. Without these things, you'd be kicking yourself for the eternities saying something like, "If only I had fully accepted the doctrine of the LDS Church, then I could have become a God."
Hypothetically, if the LDS church weren't true, no other organization could possibly have truth since you already believe that they are all false (interesting logic, eh). If the Mormon church is false, then you are convinced that all churches devoid of truth.
Any opposing forces to the Church help prove to you that the Church must be true, especially in light of the Book of Mormon teachings on opposition.
Anything written by a former Mormon must be false or, at best, unreliable. Bottom line, you believe that former Mormons have evil intentions.
Former Mormons leave the Church because of serious sin. Those who leave the Church in reality know that the Church is true and are liars just like the Book of Mormon anti-Christs.
You have so many authorized Church books to read and Church jobs to do that you don't have time or inclination to read any information that may go contrary to the Church.
Even if the Mormon church weren't true, it teaches good values to your family and that's good enough."
Cheese, Pliggy, Rose, Stence, do these hold up with your doctrinal teachings at all?
Ya know, the conversation around here is really puzzling to someone like me. I'm here in the "crick". Most of the people I know were married in their late teens and early to mid twenties. Some people keep talking about all the guys here or there married to 14 year olds. That is so rare that I guess the only one I heard about was Elissa somewhere back there. I just don't get why people think that we're trained to start having babies from 12 on up. Even if Merrianne said "I do" at 12 doesn't mean she and he intended to start cranking out babies at that age. A sealing is quite a bit different than a gentile marriage.
Brigham Young said that we accept truth wherever it comes from. Even the devil will dish out 100 truths to sneak in one lie. I've read a lot of things besides official Church books. There's a lot of good and a lot of hog slop.
People start becoming aware of your own feelings. Diversity is gift. It is a way of establishing what it is that you prefer or "want".
If you find yourself feeling angry ask yourself what it is I don't want, then focus on what it is you do want and REMEMBER the ONLY person that is responsible for your feelings is YOURSELF!
Example: Sexual preference. I don't get turned on by someone of the same sex. I don't like it, it makes me uncomfortable. What is it that I prefer? A member of the opposite sex.
I don't have a right to cause someone gay harm. I don't have a right to prevent gays from having Constitutional rights to protect their family because I don't like them.
I let them live in peace and allow them to have their own life and I go in peace and live my own life.
Stence,
I think the reason the issue keeps coming up is the response tends to be along the lines of:
We can because our Prophet/religion says we can.
It's much worse in the rest of America.
What right does anyone have to tell us how to raise our children.
Or variations thereof. The fact that Marriane married the Prophet at 12 means that her parents did not protect her right to have options in life as an adult and instead helped or allowed (depending on your point of view) her to make a decision that limits her choices in life. This runs contrary to my feelings about "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" because I think Marriane has had her chance to pursue those elusive "rights" limited. She is now married. Maybe that is something that she would have chosen for herself as an adult, and maybe she would have matured and decided she wanted something else. But the decision was made, and made before Marriane was old enough to consent to a marriage. Even if she isn't having children, she is married.
Also, being married makes it more likely that a hormonal teenager is going to decide she wants sex and/or babies before she is fully grown. At the risk of beating my dead horse again, it is a medical risk to be pregnant and give birth at young ages. From age 15 up the risks start going down, but they are still there.
So if someone tries to justify such behavior, rather than feeling it is wrong, there's going to be a debate.
harley said...
The jest of this story is in Brookes few lines here:
Why aren't any sect members called to serve on juries or boards? he asked.
Ron in Houston said...
No Pliggy
I can read. I know this might be a little tough to get your very small mind around by the phrase "50 voted" is vastly different than "140 registered voters."
Did you get it or do I need to do it again more slowly?
Ron, your comprehension isn't any better.
harley said...
The jest of this story is in Brookes few lines here:
Why aren't any sect members called to serve on juries or boards? he asked.
And then you all go yaking about how only 50 voted and that isn't even relevant.
The point here isn't how many voted. The jury is garnered a voter registration list and also drivers licenses. The pool of possible jurists from YFZ isn't the 50 that voted. It's the number of adults (the ones that are over 18 years of age not the adults that are under 18 years of age but I digress) it's the 18+ year olds that have either registered to vote (whether they voted or not) and also those who have a valid (and we all know that that point is CRUCIAL in this here case) a valid Texas state drivers license.
The question was out of 140 registered why is there 0 called as jurists?
Cheese,
It would depend on when they draw on the voters registration and driver's licenses databases and how many are in each. You can assume a conspiracy, but it probably doesn't exist. Most likely people didn't register to vote or drive in the right time frame to be in the jury pool.
Cheese, Pliggy, Rose, Stence, do these hold up with your doctrinal teachings at all?
--------
Is that paddling upstream or going downstream?
What does it matter to you whether or not these hold up with their doctrinal teachings?
Does this prevent you from believing in what you believe in?
Rebeckah why do you think God made us all different? Do you think he made us all different to be the same?
At the risk of beating a dead horse. Everyone is an individual. I do not judge every gentile, LDS, Jew, or atheist the same. Just because someone who left my religion says "This is what their Prophet says," doesn't make it so. I maintain connections with former members who know and maintain that the 14 year old issue, lost boys, and so many other myths are just that and they are quite disgusted with it all. I guess you can go on and on about 1 or 2 instances but it is a wonderment about someone casting stones when there own glass houses aren't that safe.
Cheese
140 out of 2500 is roughly a little more than 5% of the population.
Plus we don't know how many juries were empaneled since they registered to vote.
Wasn't one of the things said that most of the registrations occurred after the raid? If so, that means they haven't been on the rolls a long time.
If you ask me, it's simply a matter of timing. If they're on the rolls they'll be called eventually.
What would happen if we all became clones and we thought, ate, and did EVERYTHING alike?
Ruby,
"Is that paddling upstream or going downstream?
What does it matter to you whether or not these hold up with their doctrinal teachings?
Does this prevent you from believing in what you believe in?"
It's neither, just an attempt to learn. I don't think the doctrines are right or wrong in and of themselves. If the FLDS still believe primarily in these doctrines then that would shed more light on their probable thinking, that's all.
Is it wrong to ask doctrinal questions or does it seem like I'm looking for "ammunition"?
Rose, where are you? You can explain things pretty good. I feel a little inept at explaining why I think that there's so much hypocrisy out "there".
Oops, I forgot.....Laurie thinks we're one and the same.
stence
Here's a little tip for you. Calling a Jewish person a "Jew" is about the same as calling a black person a nigger.
I'm cutting you slack since I don't think you meant it in a derogatory fashion. However, it can be very highly derogatory.
Rebeckah, the story of Mormonism is that in a time when people believed that the Bible (altered or unaltered, whatever) was all the communication that had ever or would ever be given from God in Heaven to man on earth, then God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ appeared to the boy Joseph Smith and put him on a life long and eternity long mission. It's a fundamental belief of Mormonism that the Lord has a Prophet in Zion who recieves PRESENT revelation.
Do you have a problem with that?
I mean do you have a problem with US believing that?
keep up with ad hominem Ron, It doesn't invalidate my point that you are a blood-sucking leech on the pustules of a decayed, withering society, as evident by the failure of most marriages which you hover over like a vulture. Good thing you got yourself an obsequious little asian wife to do your dishes for you and provide your physical needs. The downside is of course, she doesn't speak your language, hence the reason you're here talking to us, trying to make sense of your pathetic worthless life.
What would it be like if Rubytuesday didn't blog spam with irrelevant and inane questions?
Now is that going clockwise or counterclockwise down the toilet?
Well, I think Merrianne's choices are probably far less limited than an older teen who decides to marry and have children soon after marriage. Merrianne is married to a man who is apt to be incarcerated for some time. So it is definite she isn't going to have babies anytime soon. Unless, when she gets older she asks to be released from this marriage in order to be able to marry another man. Then asking for that would be personal choice, no?
I'm sure that the financial obligations of Warren Jeffs' family are being taken care of so she doesn't have to worry about being a provider. If she wants to pursue college or other training after high school she has that option.
Since she is already married, no one is going to try to influence her to get married...
Except for the little inconvenience of being held in captivity by CPS, I'd say Merrianne has more freedom and options on her horizon than most fourteen year olds, in or out of the FLDS.
rebeckah said: "Is it wrong to ask doctrinal questions or does it seem like I'm looking for "ammunition"?
Rebeckah, it's kinda like asking the question "when did you stop beating your wife?"
Ziggy
Yeah, my wife is Asian. So why do you point it out? Because you're a little racist, homophobic, misogynist little prick, that's why.
Just keep showing your true colors asshole.
Cheese,
Rebeckah, it's kinda like asking the question "when did you stop beating your wife?"
Really? I didn't mean it that way at all. But if I'm being rude or intrusive I apologize. I certainly don't think poorly of anyone who doesn't want to answer that question.
Ron, so if we're talking about the Jews we're supposed to say Jewish's?
Ron, calling a Jew a Jew is nothing like using racial slurs to or about an African American...really!
It actually depends on the context and tone.
If someone has a terndency t be very careful with their spending and you say, "he acts like a Jew with his money." That would be negative stereotyping...or to call someone a "dirty Jew"...well, that's obvious...
But to say "lots of people live in Jerusalem. Jews, Gentiles, and Muslims are all there." That's not negative, at all...
Cheese,
"Do you have a problem with that?
I mean do you have a problem with US believing that?"
No, I don't. I don't find Joseph Smith credible, but that's fine since no one is tring to insist that I should. If you do, that is absolutely your perogative in life. And no, I don't think poorly of you because you believe in a modern prophet. I can disagree and still respect (which I know might be a bit of a shock to some people and for good reason).
Z. I just want you to know that I am going to make a complaint about you to the Online editor from the Trib.
Ron, I would hope you do also.
That was one of the most despicable things I've seen or heard in a long, long time.
I'm cutting you slack since I don't think you meant it in a derogatory fashion. However, it can be very highly derogatory.
No one gives a crap what you think, Ron. Who made you the keeper of society's rules of etiquet? Have you been the christened the chief thought police officer now?
These people live apart and make their own rules. They don't give a crap about what mainstream society thinks, because they don't live there, cheifly because it's a big stinking cesspool.
Ron,
Thanks for the slack. I was totally unaware of that.
This comes from someone who's been called all sorts of disgusting things and I wouldn't want to pass on the bad feelings................
Forgiveness you know.
Not too much sweet talk though, I really didn't mean to give up as much of the code as I did!!!!!....
Just keep showing your true colors asshole.
Looks like I touched on a nerve...
Stence-
Hiya!!!!!
Ron in Houston said...
stence
Here's a little tip for you. Calling a Jewish person a "Jew" is about the same as calling a black person a nigger.
I'm cutting you slack since I don't think you meant it in a derogatory fashion. However, it can be very highly derogatory.
Ron, I can't believe that you're the etiquette police now! I think you're full of it with this racism crap. People need to quit jumping on the racism horse and riding it to death.
BTW: Does your wife (whom I believe is more than likley a very nice lady) have any Vietnamese recipies to share? My wife wants to learn how to make that good beef broth for the pho soup.
Z,
Would you be so kind as to take your adolesent trash elsewhere? Find a nice conspiracy or white supremacist site and have a ball. The adults are talking here and no one really cares about your juvenile racism.
The question was out of 140 registered why is there 0 called as jurists?
Cheese, the reason no one from Flds have been called to jury duty is because :1. None of them were registered in Texas to Vote.
2. Im not sure any of them had Texas Driver Licenses. They may have had driver's licenses from Utah or Arizona, but they wouldn't be in a Texas Jury pool if they didn't have a Texas license.
3. What the hell difference does it make? They been in Texas since 2003 and never bothered to register till after the raid.
4. And willie did make the statement doran was talking about at a news conference.
Stence, we've been very low key about the code, today....
Although Pliggy has been threatening my pickles....gggggggrrrrrrrrrrrr
Ziggy
I just want you to keep showing your ass to the rest of the crowd so they can understand why I see you as a little racist pig.
Cheese, I live in a small town, too. I was here, and registered to vote, for almost seven years before I was called. My son was called for Federal Jury duty six months after he registered...go figure...
Ztg
Ron is an attorney, with a specialzation in Family Law. He defends assholes like you, who whine and raise hell and eventually get in trouble with the law.
Yup he gets paid for his services, just like you get paid for ditch digging. Keep on digging Ztg,, sooner or later you will fall in that hole.
the e-mail for the online editor is manny@sltrib.com
I copied Brooke on the complaint.
Rebeckah said,
"I found this on a website with stories by those who have left the LDS church. I find it very interesting..."
Some of what you posted is not held as doctrine by the present day LDS church. But I do find you information interesting.
ztgstmv said...
Ok, Rebekah, let's put it this way. Ron is a leech on what we call society's (failed) institution of marriage. He's incensed there's actually a community of people among us who (gasp) 1) don't register their marriages; and 2) actually stay together!
Ztg, there are plenty of wives being swapped around in Flds. They kick a father out and reassign his so called "celestial wife" to another man. RARELY do these women get child support for the kids they had with the biological father.
Can you please tell me how and when any women get divorces in FLDS. They dont because they stay married to somebody, till they quit being able to produce children.
cheese
Obviously I am sensitive to racist pigs. I certainly don't see Stence that way. I just don't think he realized that Jew can be offensive. Yeah, it's maybe not up there with the N word but it can be. I would certainly never call my Jewish friends, Jews.
My wife makes the best pho in town. I can tell you the secret. First, boil a bunch of beef bones for probably a good 4 to 5 hours. The other secret requires a trip to an Asian market. There is a little bag of spices that she boils along with the bones. You also have to skim the top of the pot as it boils.
Rats,
Maybe I'll just leave some people out of it.
My point is that I've tried to teach my children, because I thoroughly believe it myself, that you can't judge everyone in a group by one individual in it or by the actions of one individual. Maybe that one individual was off his/her meds that day and they might be sorry for what they said or did yesterday.
"He who will not forgive, destroys the bridge over which he must pass someday." or something like that.
That "R" is why we still try not to harshly judge those who have seemed so cruel and unreasonable to us......Even Laurie/Flora.
If I were FLDS, I wouldn't be crying to be called for jury duty; you just may get what you ask for.
Sorry, Ron advocates state-sanctioned kidnapping, hatred, and genocide. He deserves a good tongue-lashing, and maybe a good kick in the butt. And he sure won't get it from his wife.
I would rather not have to intervene in the conversation but we have a policy about personal attacks and there are more than a few here. Please stop or I will have to start hitting the delete button.
A clarification: Willie was officially on the commission agenda. His turn came while the court hearing was in recess.
His point was not about how many FLDS voted, but how many are registered and whether they would get the same consideration in jury selection, committee memberships, etc.
So Cheese, just exactly when did Harley move into Shortcreek? And when did he become a confidant of the bishop? The Prophet? Is he an elder? I'm impressed that with all the new dialogue and so on underfoot that the FLDS are also taking in gentiles and bestowing them with such exalted positions of trust in the community!!!!!
harley: Yup he gets paid for his services, just like you get paid for ditch digging. Keep on digging Ztg,, sooner or later you will fall in that hole.
Is that a threat?
harley, let me put it this way, whether they're "reassigned" or not, they don't "get divorced." That's less money in Ron's pocket.
The FLDS handle their own civil stuff in a civil manner within their church. That infuriates secularists like Ron, who makes his living telling people "the right way" to do things in their lives.
Now tell me who's being controlled?
Ron,
I'm a girl! REALLY..........
I'm somewhat flattered that you might consider me a man, but on the other hand I just don't have what it takes for it. On the other hand I would challenge most men to do what I do in a reasonable way.
Stence...I know....I've had it explained to me a gazillion times....and I am trying...well, most of the time I am trying...but honestly, it takes a heck of a lot more practice than I've had to get any good at it...and for it to be automatic, well, I'm not apt to live that long....
But it is one of the things I admire the most....
Ron, as a quasi-Jew, and having a family full of Jews of one degree or another...and living in a community with a large Jewish population...and having sent a couple of my children to Yeshiva, take it from me, it really is context and intent...
even coming from a goyim....
WC
I rather agree. Does anybody really WANT jury duty?
Oops
Sorry stence - I don't know why I thought you were a guy. Maybe the name sounded masculine to me?
Ziggy said:
"And he sure won't get it from his wife."
Why Ziggy? Cause she Asian? Harley is right, just keep digging that ditch.
Ron, I've always thought it would be interesting to be on a criminal jury...but it's not likely.....
Ron said,
"I rather agree. Does anybody really WANT jury duty?"
That is one freedom I would actually gladly give up.
Well, anyway it's time to be off for awhile. So good to see you R but us FLDS mothers get to make dinner too. .......!!!!!!!!
Hide those Pickles good. I want my share!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
.............................
;@@@@@@@@ ;( over there.:)
WC
I've yet to see a happy face when a panelist realizes they're on the jury.
The best it gets is sort of this resigned sort of look
So Ron, want to share with me why you've decided to not speak to me?
Just curious.
I sat through a whole day of jury selection, then realized I had moved about 7 months prior- into the next county.
I got out of jury duty, but it was a bittersweet realization.
Regina
I'm slightly distracted with that troll Ziggy. I'm certainly not ignoring you.
Actually depending on the case, a criminal jury could be both really interesting while also being highly depressing.
Regina
I'm also installing a skype phone for my wife as well as doing about 10 other things at the same time.
Seems I'm always multi-tasking...
Of course, it may be kinda cool to see a panel of FLDS say, in a low polite voice, "we find the defendent- guilty, your honor"
Brooke
How many trials by jury have occured in El Dorado the last 5yrs?
Flds have been in the county since 2003.
You know as well as everyone here, NOT one FLDS member registered to vote in the county till after May 2008.
So why would Willie Jessop even ask such a stupid question?
One more comment on jury duty, then I'll quit.
Jury duty is kinda like "indigenous nudity" you sometimes hear of on the National Geographic channel. You are curious at first, until you're there, then you really wished you were somewhere else.
Ron in Houston said...
Oops
Sorry stence - I don't know why I thought you were a guy. Maybe the name sounded masculine to me?
maybe it's because you thought she said 'stench' LOL
There is a little bag of spices........
So out with the info! (please)
Thank you for responding on that WC. Are you current LDS? Would you be willing to tell me about changes in doctrine? You can e-mail me if you don't want to do so here. I really do enjoy learning about different belief systems.
I know that most of these doctrines are negatively phrased, since they were written by someone discussing why he or she found it hard to leave the Mormon church.
rericson said...
So Cheese, just exactly when did Harley move into Shortcreek? And when did he become a confidant of the bishop? The Prophet? Is he an elder? I'm impressed that with all the new dialogue and so on underfoot that the FLDS are also taking in gentiles and bestowing them with such exalted positions of trust in the community!!!!!
I know you're expressing some sarcasm here but I don't know which post of harley's you're refering to here.
BTW: harley is a troll. If SHE's a man with a wife and four kids then I'm Walt Disney.
CEDAR CITY - A Utah state senator is preparing to present his controversial incest bill during the 2009 Utah legislative session, which begins Jan. 26.
Sen. Dennis Stowell, R.-Dist. 28, put together a bill that outlaws incest through artificial insemination and allows DNA tests as evidence, which could not be used solely by prosecutors before.
"The way it's written now, we have to prove the act of sexual intercourse," Iron County Attorney Scott Garrett said. "But what we're focused on here is the product of intercourse, not intercourse itself."
Garrett said this is the first bill he has seen of this kind, and said that it has the momentum to pass.
Stowell is not too worried about passage, as the Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Interim Committee unanimously recommended its passage after reviewing it Nov. 19, he said.
Two Utah geneticists provided testimony to back Stowell's case. Nobel Prize winner Dr. Mario Capecchi, University of Utah distinguished professor of human genetics and biology and investigator at Howard Hughes Medical Center, provided statistics, saying there is a 25-50 percent chance of deformity with first relationships and 6-8 percent with second relationships.
First relationships include father-daughter and brother-sister incest, and second include cousin and uncle-niece relationships, Stowell explained.
John Opitz, University of Utah professor of pediatrics, human genetics, pathology, obstetrics and gynecology, wrote in his testimony that "the deleterious effects of incest in resulting offspring by way of mortality, defect and mental retardation range from 61 to 89 percent."
Amendments to the bill itself state that any actor is guilty of incest who provides his seminal fluid or her human egg for insemination and the receiver is also guilty. The statute of limitations also increases from four to seven years, Stowell said, because it can be too easy to hide children.
"I want to fix the law on behalf of the children who are created and who are the ones who have to live with the problems all of their lives," Stowell told Capecchi when requesting testimony.
He said possibly the most moving testimony came from the sons of a Utah father who allegedly artificially inseminated his daughter, Stowell said.
"People were glued to it," he said of the committee as they watched the testimony.
Stowell said he is confident the bill will pass, but he wants to cover all his bases with testimony in case objections come up.
Opitz said in his testimony that an issue which could arise includes immigrant couples from countries that do allow second relationship marriages.
These situations would have to be looked at case-by-case, though physicians follow confidentiality laws for their patients and would face the dilemma of turning couples over to law enforcement.
TheSpectrum.com
Originally published January 2, 2009
Ya harley, we know you like to go fishing in the bottom of the dumpster and find all the juicy articles and dwell on them. Excuse us while we toss our cookies.
Ron! The spices!
Rebeckah,
Sure. I am LDS and that will be a pretty lengthy email, but I will try and get back with you soon- maybe not this evening. I think Pliggy posted a good entry on his website "FLDS View" about LDS vs, FLDS awhile back, not sure the title though.
Cheese,
This is the one that triggered my note to you...but they're all the same...so I was just venting through a bit of sarcasm. I've got to be careful to not call names!
"Ztg, there are plenty of wives being swapped around in Flds. They kick a father out and reassign his so called "celestial wife" to another man. RARELY do these women get child support for the kids they had with the biological father.
Can you please tell me how and when any women get divorces in FLDS. They dont because they stay married to somebody, till they quit being able to produce children."
"Opitz said in his testimony that an issue which could arise includes immigrant couples from countries that do allow second relationship marriages."
That's great! So let's protect peoples Constitutional rights as long as they immigrate but if they already live here then they don't deserve to be protected in their rights. Way to go! I think I'm beginning to grasp our southern border problem.
r, that's a Flora Mae comment. It is just common A N.
Geezus. Someone may get kicked off for their beliefs and for saying something that offended a few people's sensabilities?
Where's the offensive post? To Ron? I've heard much worse, from Ron himself. Is Ron's life in jeopardy due to Zs beliefs or comments? Ron seems perfectly capable of defending himself?
Who's next? If anyone's taking a vote, I vote he stays.
So much for "keep the dialogue going". So much for defending people's rights to believe and speak their truth, so long as they don't act on it.
Cheese
Right, spices...
If you go to the Asian supermarket, in the spice section they will have little red boxes (maybe about 3 in long) marked Pho Ngo. If you peak inside, you'll see a little bag and you can smell things like anise.
While you're there make sure you pick up the pho noodles (either dry or refrigerated), a big bag of basil leaves (they're cheap there), hoisin sauce, and cilantro (also very cheap there). You can also get some of the red pepper Sirachi sauce if you like it hot and bean sprouts if you like them. Since you're making beef pho, you may want to pick up some beef round sliced thin for soup.
That's pretty much it. Boil the bones with the Pho Ngo spices for a long time (smells great while its cooking), strain the broth, cook the noodles very briefly (maybe 1 to 2 minutes), toss the noodles in with the raw beef (it will cook in the broth) garnish with cilantro, lots of basil, hoisin and whatever else (oops forgot - most folks like scallions) suits your particular tastes and you've got some really good eats.
Great food for a cold day.
Ron,
Whatever else you do or say, thanks for the great recipe.
A few of us will probably be trying it.
I really did think of what a lousy handle I picked and even thought of Stench with it. It could have something to do with the pickles you know...........
Believe me, where I'm from, I've been called a lot worse.
Txblogger
You're not sticking up for me? I'm a victim I tell you. Abused, neglected, and pushed around. Even Brooke neglected me. Where's my literary agent? It's time for my memoir, "Life on the Plural Blog."
WC:
"That is one freedom I would actually gladly give up."
I know that was half serious. But reading that flippant statement sent a shiver down my spine.
"it may be kinda cool to see a panel of FLDS say, in a low polite voice, "we find the defendent- guilty, your honor"
That's the Louis Farrakhan voice. All members of small, intensely bonded religious groupings seem to use it.
Ron,
Just make sure your "Life on the Plural Blog" is truthful. No stories of harley being tied to bulls and such.
What the hell difference does it make? They been in Texas since 2003 and never bothered to register till after the raid.
Think that might've been out of consideration, harley. Not to incite fear or hysteria in the locals- that they were making a move to "take over the local government". Hell they were all afraid the FLDS were gonna come after the daughter's and wives.
Do you understand the intelligence level in El Duh Rado?
silver,
Of all the flippant statements I've made on this blog, you have picked they one that I actually wasn't so flippant about. I am probably casual about defending that freedom because I have never been of need of an impartial jury. But everyone deserves one, even intensely bonded religious groupings (as you refer to them).
WC
What are you talking about? My memoir will not include lies like being tied to bulls. I will tell the horrid story of Brooke making Harley go to lunch with Regina.
Such abuse just begs to be exposed.
Ron, I'm quite familiar with the soup after it comes to the table. And sounds like you are too! At least we agree on something. Someday maybe I'll go to Houston and if I do I'm going to expect some pho soup/w rare beef and shrimp! At your expense! Thanx for the recipe.
BTW: Pho Ngo? That almost sounds racist, ya know. (just kidding)
Ron in Houston said...
WC
What are you talking about? My memoir will not include lies like being tied to bulls. I will tell the horrid story of Brooke making Harley go to lunch with Regina.
Such abuse just begs to be exposed.
Ron, my wife thinks you're funny!
Cheese, I live in a small town, too. I was here, and registered to vote, for almost seven years before I was called. My son was called for Federal Jury duty six months after he registered...go figure...-R
Maybe your reputation preceeds you R. They screen out free thinkers. What a mess that is when one person halts a death sentence.
Txblogger
I really don't beleive anyone was afraid of anyone else taking over their government, or their town.
Im sure they were concerned once all the construction started, since no one knew who they were or what they were building.
We aren't talking about Dallas/Ft Worth or Houston here, your talking about a very small town, with ONE grocery store, a dollar store, a school, courthouse, gas station, and 2000 people in the whole county.
They were told it was going to be an exotic hunting resort, lol Im trying to think what is exoctic. There are Deer and goats on most of those ranches, and not much more.
by the way at Christmas, we drove through El Dorado going to San Antonio, had to get gas there, Geez,,, everywhere in the larger towns it was 1.39 a gallon.
We had to pay 1.69 a gallon in El dorado.
You're not sticking up for me? I'm a victim I tell you. Abused, neglected, and pushed around. Even Brooke neglected me. Where's my literary agent? It's time for my memoir, "Life on the Plural Blog."
Well hell's bells, Ron. I did stick up for you. I do think you're perfectly capable of taking care of yourself. If not, then best get off here and start that victim narrative.
Do you understand the intelligence level in El Duh Rado?
Damn, that was supposed to be....
El Duh Raid-O
harley said...
Prof
Out of 2,500 registered voters in the county, only 50 voted from Flds.
.....a dollar store, a school, courthouse, gas station, and 2000 people in the whole county.
So do monogomists always lie like that, harley? Is it part of the cradle to grave brainwashing of the monogomist cult?
I really don't beleive anyone was afraid of anyone else taking over their government, or their town.
My God harley, would you PLEASE pick a disease for yourself, like alzheimers so I can feel mercy instead of total disdain. I'm not going to go search for links to dispell that total BS you just posted. I think everyone else in this discussion knows what you just posted as truth is pure bunk. That about the women/girls was a direct quote from Doran. Hildebran and others expressed fear of them taking over as they had in other states. They took the damn fear all the way to Wa. Abbott express it in his testimony.
Who the hell are you? Are you sitting there laughing everytime you cause someone trouble to dispell your comments. Are you really a patient in Bellvue who doesn't know anything about this other than what you've read, and forget that from day to day.
They were told it was going to be an exotic hunting resort, lol Im trying to think what is exoctic. There are Deer and goats on most of those ranches, and not much more.
So what? Since when does one have to divulge why they are buying property and what they intend to do with it? It WILL eventually be discovered if they're violating any codes and they'll be sanctioned. They can't forbid entry for ever to all entities. I'm certain they knew this.
I figure another to avoid the shock factor for a while.
by the way at Christmas, we drove through El Dorado going to San Antonio, had to get gas there, Geez,,, everywhere in the larger towns it was 1.39 a gallon.
We had to pay 1.69 a gallon in El dorado.
Eldorado is out of the way if one's coming from the west. Now if you're in San Angelo and going to San Antonio, you go right through El Duh Raid-O to get to I-10.
Interestin.
Cheese
You and I may disagree but you're welcome anytime.
I will be awarding extra points for anyone that can correctly pronounce Ngo.
It sounds sort of like "gnaw" only it begins with the sound like the the ng in "king."
The sounds are very foreign to English speakers.
"So what? Since when does one have to divulge why they are buying property and what they intend to do with it?"
So what? The apostates all lie, no one is ever forced/abused/unhappy. You can believe us. Ooops, well except for that one little lie. Are you serious, Txblogger? Do you really not see an issue with a group that wants you to believe everything they say and yet they resort to a lie when buying property to settle on? Please, try to think just a little outside of your "FLDS is holy and CPS is the devil" box.
WC at 7:41 PM: Agreed. Also agreed that everyone deserves their day, including all the groupings, big and small.
Rebeckah,
I wish they hadn't made up the story about a hunting retreat. I wish he'd just told the nosey b****** that asked, that it was none of his business.
You are not required by law to divulge WHY you are buying property or how you intend to use it.
So, if they'd gone out there and put in an amusement park or some other such thing that was strictly prohibited, they'd risk loosing it if they violated building/ land use codes. Surely someone researched land use before the purchase. According to the officials they aren't in violation.
I can't for one minute beleive that they didn't know the good people of El Duh Raid-O would eventually find out the truth of who they were. Maybe it was acutally a considerate thing to do. Soften/ prolong the shock.
Ma'am, I don't subscribe to your hardline, black & white values. While I'm uncomfortable lying, and don't do it well; If someone comes after me or one of my loved ones without good cause, I will lie like hell and not feel a second of remorse.
TxBlogger,
"Ma'am, I don't subscribe to your hardline, black & white values. While I'm uncomfortable lying, and don't do it well; If someone comes after me or one of my loved ones without good cause, I will lie like hell and not feel a second of remorse."
You certainly don't have to subscribe to any of my values, but there's a very big difference between lying to protect your children from someone who is "coming after them" and lying to set up a colony without alerting the natives -- so to speak. Also, given the debacle that happened with the FLDS just recently in trying to buy land in South Dakota, starting "rennovations" in the night before the sale was final, (and much of what they did violated local ordances, but they never checked) and then to find the sale couldn't be made at all as there was another person involved with the ownership of the land who did NOT give permission, well, given all of that, I wouldn't be too confident that someone connected with the FLDS actually checked ahead of time about land usage regulation. It's possible they did, but it's just as possible that they didn't.
You certainly don't have to subscribe to any of my values,
You asked:
Do you really not see an issue with a group that wants you to believe everything they say and yet they resort to a lie when buying property to settle on?..
NO. I don't, given the pervasive attack they've been under since they arrived in this country. People lie for a reason Rebeckah, and it's most often to avoid unrealistic consequences. Do you EVER lie? To protect yourself from discrimination? To avoid an uncomfortable situation? To avoid anything? Are you really as pure as you come off?
but there's a very big difference between lying to protect your children from someone who is "coming after them" and lying to set up a colony without alerting the natives -- so to speak.
Does the law require it Rebeckah? So they lied to a real estate broker. Ever done business with that group? Think they ever lie? So now it's a colony. Much different than a compound.
Also, given the debacle that happened with the FLDS just recently in trying to buy land in South Dakota, starting "rennovations" in the night before the sale was final, (and much of what they did violated local ordances, but they never checked) and then to find the sale couldn't be made at all as there was another person involved with the ownership of the land who did NOT give permission
I don't know that story and again, So what? They jumped the gun and paid the price. Someone else will benefits from the renovations. Ya think that sort of thing doesn't happen on a regular basis? Seems the person at fault is whoever sold it to them without the second party's approval. What was their consequence?
I wouldn't be too confident that someone connected with the FLDS actually checked ahead of time about land usage regulation. It's possible they did, but it's just as possible that they didn't.
So what? Big smokin gun. If they had violated land use codes they would've suffered the consequences. They didn't, so it's a moot point. They are in compliance.
Txblogger said:
"So what? Since when does one have to divulge why they are buying property and what they intend to do with it?"
A statement of intent may not be required when buying property, but I'm not sure that is not required for new contruction. Does anyone on this List know?
I dont mind being called a Jew. That is what I am and I am honored with it.
But if you put an insult word beside it or generalize something with a negative comment like ztgstmv has done on Allens Blog, then it IS an insult. Ironic but true..........
I dont mind being called a Jew. That is what I am and I am honored with it.
But if you put an insult word beside it or generalize something with a negative comment like ztgstmv has done on Allens Blog, then it IS an insult. Ironic but true..........
cheese!
I trust this web site 100% and Emeryl lagasse is one of my favorites
press Pho Ga Soup for chicken and for beef
Bon Appetit
"Do you EVER lie? To protect yourself from discrimination? To avoid an uncomfortable situation? To avoid anything? Are you really as pure as you come off?"
No, I am hardly pure. Yes, I virtually always tell the truth. No, I can't claim that it is from any super righteousness -- I'm just a really, really lousy liar, so I don't do it. Oh, and the FLDS ARE from this country. It's a homegrown religion.
"I don't know that story and again, So what? They jumped the gun and paid the price. Someone else will benefits from the renovations. Ya think that sort of thing doesn't happen on a regular basis? Seems the person at fault is whoever sold it to them without the second party's approval. What was their consequence?"
As far as I know they haven't paid any "prices". The next person to own the property, however, will pay the price in trying to repair the riverbed they destroyed. And from what I read it was in a protected "marshland" area. So no one reaps any benefits from the FLDS "jumping the gun" and starting their "renovations" before the sale actually closed.
Just an FYI, I don't intend to respond to you again. It seems to me that you deliberately try to twist anything anyone says that isn't 100% pro-FLDS all out of proportion. That's fine, but I don't want to play that game. So goodbye.
Ya, I was kind of shocked at how incensed Regina was at ztg's comment compared to Ron's comment to me the other day.
ztg is a racist
Ron is a degenerate scum
same dif.
Rebeckah, you seem to have quite a bit of information about an FLDS property in South Dakota.
First I have ever heard of it. Do you have a link?
Oh, I also find it amazing that harley was able to see how many of a particular religion voted in Shyster county. Is there a spot on the ballot where you write your religion?
Pliggy,
Here it is. I got a few of the details wrong but I think I was right in the main.
http://www.custercountynews.com/localnews/2008/10/flds-evicted-from-land/
FLDS evicted from land
By Norma Najacht on October 30th, 2008
The sale of 440 acres of land near Edgemont along the Cheyenne River in Fall River County to Oak Valley, Inc., was set aside in an Oct. 24 court decision.
Oak Valley is a corporation of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS), which also owns property in Custer County. Oak Valley was incorporated in Evanston, Wyo., in March 2006.
The sale was challenged by Carolyn Fines of Edgemont, half heir of the estate of Herman Heck, to whom the property belonged.
According to Fall River County State’s Attorney Lance Russell, Fines challenged the sale because she did not agree early on with the will, which stated that if any of the heirs wanted the land, it was to go to them. Otherwise, it was to be sold. The other heir was Doris Seabeck, who had agreed to the sale.
In court last Friday, Fines testified that she did want the land and that she had not agreed to the sale to Oak Valley, Inc.
Testifying on behalf of Oak Valley were Edson Jessop Harker of Oak Valley and Terri Hollenbeck, realtor for All American Realty in Edgemont, which was handling the sale.
The question was whether the estate could close on the sale and accept money for it if one heir objected to the sale. Judge Merton B. Tice ruled in favor of Fines. The sale was scheduled to close Oct. 24.
Oak Valley will have 30 days to appeal the decision.
According to Russell, the sales contract stated that Oak Valley could be on the land only at the time of closing. They were in violation of that agreement.
Russell said there were numberous violations by Oak Valley, including burning despite a burn ban in Fall River County and in spite of having called four times asking about the legality of burning.
Oak Valley also moved a great amount of earth next to the Cheyenne River, something that requires a permit. They were also digging with a backhoe in the Cheyenne River, apparently trying to get gravel. In the process, a bluff was removed. The state Department of Environment and Natural Resources (DENR) came out to the property about a week ago and informed Oak Valley they couldn’t do that. Although DENR declined to bring charges, Oak Valley was prosecuted in Magistrate Court in Fall River County for burning and was fined for that.
Oak Valley was served with a notice of eviction a couple of weeks ago, Russell said, giving them 24 hours to vacate the property. At that time, they got off the land and moved their equipment to a neighbor’s land. As far as the damage that has been done to the property, that’s for the estate to decide what they will do about that, Russell said.
Pliggy,
"Oh, I also find it amazing that harley was able to see how many of a particular religion voted in Shyster county. Is there a spot on the ballot where you write your religion?"
I must confess, Pliggy, I wondered the same thing.
Rubytuesday
In case you haven't figured it out by now, some folks are deserving of abuse. I don't see a whole lot of difference between Ziggy and some white supremacist pig.
Like I said you make whatever connection you want.
----------
I have the connection I want! :)
Pliggy
Um, you've been sent away to repent from afar because your sect sees you as degenerate scum.
Regina isn't upset because she realizes that you shoot an arrow and me and I shoot one back. Our particular "war" has been going on for some time.
Besides Pliggy, if you're gonna dish it out...
Rebeccah & Pliggy
No your religion isn't on the ballot but your address is. The FLDS all live at the same post office address.
Maayan
I'm sure the term "jew" is culturally and perhaps even regionally different. The slang term as I know it means to be a very cheap, miserly, or niggardly. If is viewed derogatorily when a non-Jewish person says it especially to a Jewish person. Like a lot of non-politically correct words, the target group can say it about themselves. It's probably not as mean and nasty as the "N" word, but it certainly can be viewed that way.
The odd part is that the addition of "ish" to the word makes all the difference. Jewish is okay, Jew is not.
Go figure.
Pliggy,
"Oh, I also find it amazing that harley was able to see how many of a particular religion voted in Shyster county. Is there a spot on the ballot where you write your religion?"
As it was odd that he got a response from the Tax Assessor on a Sunday evening, regarding the amount of tax owed on YFZ.
Appears s/he lives near ElDuhRaidO and has some connections.
I have a friend who is from a very small town in Texas and he'll talk about the "come here" folks. "Come heres" are folks not known in a small community where folks tend to know one another.
When you have a group of "come heres" that tell one story about why they came which turns out to not be true, then a seed of mistrust has been planted.
I guess that's just the way small town culture operates.
Txblogger
For someone who preaches about not lumping people together, I'm sure not everyone in ElDuhRaidO is a dim bulb.
For someone who preaches about not lumping people together, I'm sure not everyone in ElDuhRaidO is a dim bulb.
Probably not, huh. Shouldn't judge the whole town by the likes of Mankin, Doyle, Doran, and a few residents who have been interviewed. There could actually be some rational people there. If so, they are awefully quiet.
People who hate others for something as insignificant as their skin color or ethnic background or the religion they practice make me sick. People who judge other people for these reasons make me sick.
That is what this blog is all about.
To make comments about Ron's wife, someone no one but Ron knows on this blog, simply because of her race and ethnicity, was a repugnant thing to do. It was not the first time he has done this. And each time I have been a little more sickened by both him, and what he believes, and the tolerance shown him by everyone here.
If people would show the FLDS a smidgen of the tolerance that is shown to a racist, mysogynist, idiot, there would be no reason or need for these discussions.
My children and grandchildren are as racially and ethnically mixed a group as you'll find anywhere. these are people I would die for. To think that there are those who do not know them, or anything about them, but intensely and personally dislike anyone of them, for nothing more than what they look like is such a reprehensible idea I don't even have adequate words for it.
Any one of us taking shots at one another may be uncomfortable. And there have been some pretty lousy things said. But they have been "attacks" from one individual to another based on those individual's ideas or thinking as presented here. No one except this individual has ever, to my knowledge, put forth racism or related isms. There is a huge difference.
Racist, ethnocentric remaarks tell of a diseased thought process. They tell of an internal ugliness that is purely evil. They turn my stomach. They upset me at the very core of my being.
I finally just turned off the computer because I was so distraught at his presence being tolerated in a group of people I have come to like and enjoy spending time with. For all the faults and all the arguing and all the differences, each of us has stuck to this...we have worked through much...many of us have made huge shifts in our thinking and world view as a result of this dialogue. That has an enormous value to me. But I couldn't stay here another minute last evening I was so completely disgusted.
Ron, I am so sorry you had to read those hate filled words.
Perhaps it gives you a small inkling of how FLDS parents feel when they know that there are people out there that hate their children, the people most dear to them, just because of who their parents are. It's pretty awful, isn't it?
I'm only zeroing in on you because it was you who had to read that garbage and feel those awful feelings, last night. Reality is it is for all of us to think about. An entire community of people hated and judged. For nothing more than their religious beliefs. Hated, sight unseen. Hated, without even knowing an individuals name. Hated because of things read, things not proven, things blown out of proportion, things only a few may have done. Hated simply because they are 'different'. It's like the woman who was speaking to McCain when he was campainging and she was stuttering and stammering trying to say something bad about Barack Obama, and finally all she could blurt out was, "He's an Arab!"....I cringed and was apalled at that, too. I was apalled that people like that still exist.
I am apalled that this group tolerates that.
Maybe the group's discussion needs to be about ways to change public perception of the FLDS. Despite what goes back and forth here, each of us in our hearts knows, from simply learning it here, that they are far more like us than they are different. They have stopped the behavior, very young marriages, that is the crux of what most people find problematic. They are openly engaging in changing their public image. Several of their community are active parts of our "group" here. Why can't we focus on how to move things forward in a good way? Why can't we use this forum to make a small difference in the big picture of moving our entire Nation, our entire "culture" toward one that is truly tolerant???
Pliggy, I am sorry if I left you hanging. When comments strike me as over the top, I try to say something. On the other hand, you get annoyed when the "mama bear" comes out in me. So sometimes whether to say something, or not, is a tough call. I am sorry if there was something I missed that I shouldn't have.
Everyone in town reading Carolyn's book ought to make for real friendly, neighborly relations....uh huh...yuppers.....
Not to mention what it's going to do to the jury pool.....
Everyone in town reading Carolyn's book ought to make for real friendly, neighborly relations....uh huh...yuppers.....
Not to mention what it's going to do to the jury pool.....
Any way to preclude those who have? What would need to happen to ensure the question was asked of all potential jurors?
This post has been removed by the author.
Regina
I think every culture has its "whipping boys." My Dad was born in 1930 in Nebraska. Since Nebraska didn't have blacks the Indians were the whipping boys. Since my Dad was 1/2 Indian, well, you can imagine.
I imagine a lot of Utah since they don't have a lot of other groups to whip have turned polygamists into whipping boys. I've heard enough stories and comments on this board to believe it to be true. It also explains why the FLDS seem to have a certain level of defensiveness when they interact with others.
BTW - you're usually pretty good about calling me out when I'm over the top with Pliggy.
LOL Regina. Please don't forget her movie will also come out
Prosecutor: Mr. Doe, have you read Carolyn Jessop's book?
Mr. Doe: No sir. I don't read books. But my wife did! She's a reader!
Prosecutor: Do you think your wife's reading Miz Jessop's book in any way made it impossible for you to judge a man fairly?
Mr. Doe: Oh no, sirree! My wife doesn't tell me what to do!
Judge: Sit down John. You're on.
Sorry. I deleted the comment. I realized I'd called my potential juror "Joe Smith". Somehow that seemed inappropriate, albeit unintentional.
Txblogger said:
Any way to preclude those who have? What would need to happen to ensure the question was asked of all potential jurors?
You can't preclude them automatically because they read Carolyn's book; you still have to show that they are biased and cannot render a fair verdict.
Any good lawyer for one of the defendants is going to examine the jury at length about information they have on the FLDS and how that has affected their viewpoints.
The game in jury selection is to try to get them to admit bias so you can get them excluded for cause rather than having to use the few peremptory challenges you have.
Actually, Pliggy would be a great defense jury consultant. He probably knows more about outsider viewpoints of the FLDS than most folks.
Regina
LOL - Yep in most contexts the name Joe Smith is a pretty generic name...
Ron, it just makes me ballistic.
I remember having one of my son's in the car with me, one day, when I went to my parent's house to pick up my younger sister. I was in town visiting for the first time in a couple of years.
My son was little. I think he was about two, at the time. He had to pee. And he was in the early days of potty training, so when he announced he had to pee, HE HAD TO PEE!
Not wanting to ignore his accomplishment at knowing he had to go, I jumped out of the car and headed up the front walk with him. My mother came out of the front door in a shot and wanted to know where we were going...I told her and she said over her shoulder as she rushed my son over to the side bushes, "Your father's in there. HE can't go inside."
So my son had his first adventure peeing outside...
And I had my first adventure in real racial hatred.
Actually Regina, I think ztgs comments insult your sensibilities about half as much as Ron's comments about my friends, like Seth, do me. Maybe you can't remember his insinuation about me.
I actually appreciate ztg getting in the gutter with Ron, because I certainly do not want to. I can tolerate his white supremacist racism just as easy as Regina can tolerate Rons foul insinuations. No Ron, I am NOT like you. I was asked out, and since their standards are higher than I was living, you'd think your Lawyer brain would get a clue.
To me, Ron is no different than harley in most things, I have totally given up on his ever being tolerant. Perhaps someday when he sees his name in the paper quoted by his enemies, he will change.
Now you have our "cultural" differences. Regina and I are are worlds apart. She can "tolerate" Ron and I, but not ztg. I can tolerate ztg and even Ron. But discussion with Ron has become pointless to me just as much as discussion with ztg has become with Regina. I left yesterday because my own comment that I deleted made me physically ill. People who want to change their gender are the most misinformed and brainwashed people on the planet. Now THAT is intolerable to me.
And I am sure harley knows the addresses of all the voters in Shyster County.b
Pliggy
Seth is either gay or bisexual and so is Nathaniel. Part of what I do to you is target your loathing of that fact.
There is probably nothing worse to you than to be gay. You view them as degenerates. Sure, you'll be nice to them and won't call them "faggots" but it doesn't change the fact that you think they're degenerates.
I can see this in you and it makes for a nice easy target to shoot my arrows at you. (Which by the way might be a little less frequent if you didn't call me things like "moron," or "bigot.")
The fact is being gay or bisexual does not make you a degenerate. Many of them are very prim and proper individuals and probably have a lot more manners than you and I combined.
So, your friends are either gay or bisexual. The most defusing response would be, "Yeah, so what?"
However, you can't say that, can you?
Pliggy said:
People who want to change their gender are the most misinformed and brainwashed people on the planet. Now THAT is intolerable to me.
And exactly how many transgendered folks have you actually met or talked with?
You want everyone to try to understand the FLDS lifestyle. How about trying to understand their lot in life before you judge.
Or should I just label you "intolerant?"
Actually Ron, what I loath is your ASSuming "fact" that is complete fiction.
I am glad that ztg can target your sensibilities. I certainly view degenerate immorality as intolerable as racism. But I can live my life without either of them.
Me calling you a moron and a bigot is much more true than you calling me a pervert.
rericson said: "They have stopped the behavior, very young marriages, that is the crux of what most people find problematic."
r, you've missed it! The state of Texas practically leads the nation in teenage pregnancy! So that isn't the crux of what "most" people find problematic. The real thing that people find problematic is that Heavenly Father has spoken from the heavens to a Prophet and continues to do so whether they like it or not. That's what most people find problematic.
Indeed, you can label me as intolerant. I have had several conversations with a trans gender coworker. My own brother has become gay. I can have pleasant conversations with them, "tolerate" them.
But to ever call that "tolerable" I will not do.
Yeah Pliggy
Nah, nah, back at ya.... What kind of porn was it you favored? Kiddie porn? Animals? Homoerotic? Get off your high horse Mr. Morality.
Pliggy I'm sorry, no one could invent those facts. I tell you what, if the case is over we can pull the police files on State v. Nathaniel Allred. I'll bet you that there is a signed statement in that file signed by your gay or bisexual buddy. Would that change your mind or would you claim that they beat him to force him to sign it?
Sure, Ron, go ahead and prove yourself wrong again.
Ron in Houston said...
Pliggy
Seth is either gay or bisexual and so is Nathaniel. Part of what I do to you is target your loathing of that fact.
Ron, being an attorney I'm suprised you talk about fiction as "fact". If you were trying a case, would you get your "facts" from a newspaper?
OK Pliggy
I'm not the tolerance police. However, before you start getting angry and screaming at the top of your lungs "bigot," remember no one has to tolerate your lifestyle either. When they shout things like "dirty plygs" it's only because they find your lifestyle immoral and sinful.
It's not really a two way street, you can't be intolerant and then expect tolerance from all around you.
Pliggy
Give me the town where he was arrested and I'll put in the request.
Ron said: "I'll bet you that there is a signed statement in that file...."
C'mon Ron! What do you mean 'you'll bet there is'. You mean you really don't know and you're just making things up?
Ron, that was way over the top. And mean.
Cheese, I think on a very, very fundamental level, you are absolutely on the money. On the more shallow, surface level, I think the young marriages is what get folks acting. No matter how often it is pointed out that it is not typical in your community any more than any of ours, the mental image of a fifty something man and a twelve year old girl that could be any of our daughter is what gets to folks on that visceral, I've got to act, level.
I think your belief in a Prophet is something most can't understand, but not something they would bother getting upset about. It's the age of marriage.
Folks feel the same way about mainstream LDS, although, I have to say, the mainstream LDS Church has done a phenomenal job of PR...hell, they've basically white washed their public image to be almost unrecognizable from any upstanding Baptist!!!!!....lmao!!!!
But folks think Scientologists or Jehovah's Witnesses or Seventh Day Adventists are a little "off", too...
I don't know...
I think the recent moves to show the world that y'all are more like us than different from us are wonderful...I thin Willie Jessop makes a great public personna...I think you and pliggy and rose and Stence and others coming on here makes a big difference...
And now I'm rambling and don't have a clue what I wanted to say...
So anyway, Good Morning to ya!!!!
Ron said: "It's not really a two way street, you can't be intolerant and then expect tolerance from all around you."
Why not Ron? You do!
cheese
When a newspaper quotes from a police report that someone said something out of their own mouth, I tend to believe it.
They got caught. Nathaniel freaked out and started singing like a canary. Seth then tried to lie by saying the $5000 was for computer work, but Nathaniel assured the officer he was telling the truth, it was for sex.
The only way I wouldn't believe it was if I thought the officer was lying. Like I told Pliggy, if you want to "frame" someone, you aren't going to use some story like that.
Besides, they're gay or bisexual, so what? It's you guys that have a problem with that.
r said: "Folks feel the same way about mainstream LDS, although, I have to say, the mainstream LDS Church has done a phenomenal job of PR...hell, they've basically white washed their public image to be almost unrecognizable from any upstanding Baptist!!!!!....lmao!!!!"
And they did it by forsaking their 'fundamental' principles so that they could be 'like the Baptists'!
cheese
I mean exactly what I said. Most of the time when one person accuses another person of a crime, they get a written statement from the person.
Let's pull the police file. I'll write them. What was the city or county where they were stopped?
Cmon, G-d created Adam and Eve, he didnt create "Adeve", so even if you guys go to biblical times...lets start at the very beginning, a very good place to start... when you read you begin with A B C, when you sing you begin with do, re, ......
Ron said: "Let's pull the police file. I'll write them. What was the city or county where they were stopped?"
I'm sure it would be in the newspaper. (if you can believe them)
Ron, you need to help yourself. I didn't dig up articles, you did. The articles should have at least the city.
I do apologize Regina for saying "half as much". I should have said "just as much"
True tolerance does not mean lack of prejudice, it means lack of police action to enforce that prejudice. We all have prejudices. I am willing to admit mine, the real problem is those who think my prejudice or the way I think is so intolerable that it has to become "criminal".
Well, Leviticus is one of the early books of the Bible. And Leviticus is where you find the first prohibition against homosexuality(I think it's the first place.).
So it had to be happening for someone to think to include it in a list of rules for daily living, which is what most of Liviticus is.
There was a need to procreate, to expand the faithful...homosexuality doesn't get you there...ergo, ban homosexual behavior. It wasn't in the intrest of the people's needs. They banned pork, too...not because there was any religious significance. It was banned because it couldn't be preserved and people got sick and died. It wasn't good for the people.
Same thing for the mikvah and the proof of identity through the mother...and all the other rules...they had more to do with the expansion of the community and the health and physical well being of the faithful than anything else!!!!!!
And now, with modern science we know how to make pork safe and we know that menstruating isn't dirty and we have dna to prove parentage and so on, so we don't follow most of what is written in Leviticus...except those who follow orthodoxy, Christian or Jew alike...
Perhaps, the ban on homosexuality is one of the last vestiges of orthodoxy that we have to work on ignoring.....
I mean if Leviticus is no longer considered applicable for eating pork...at least by Christians and many Jews, maybe he shouldn't be considered to be applicable when it comes to homosexuality??????
cheese said:
And they did it by forsaking their 'fundamental' principles so that they could be 'like the Baptists'!
And then they go back at you for apostatizing yourselves from "true" Mormonism.
Meanwhile the Baptists call both groups cults for believing someone they view as a fraud and a charlatan.
And the world goes round and round and round.
Cheese - I don't expect tolerance, then again there is nothing in my life that differs much from most other middle class Americans. I do try to give it, but I'm highly imperfect in my levels from day to day.
You certainly have a tolerance surplus. Now Pliggy, he still has a tolerance deficit. Not a big one, but still a deficit. Some others I have no tolerance for at all.
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