Open wound
Mormon church leaders have called for healing between its faithful and the gay community following its successful support of California's Proposition 8 that bans same-sex marriages.But the gay community doesn't seem ready to get over it. Activists and supporters of gay rights have demonstrated against the LDS church in cities throughout the West, including Los Angeles, Oakland, Sacramento, San Diego and at the LDS headquarters in Salt Lake City.
Now, many gay rights activists are calling for a national boycott of the church, or at least what is seen as church subsidiaries: Utah skiing and tourism, the Osmonds, American Idol star David Archuleta, the pop band The Killers (the lead singer is from Nephi) and, presumably, our beloved sea monkeys. Says a Prop 8 opponent:
At a fundamental level, the Utah Mormons crossed the line on this one. They just took marriage away from 20,000 couples and made their children bastards. You don't do that and get away with it.• Gay rights activists have also mounted a campaign to strip the Mormon church of its tax status as a religious organization because of its involvement in the political process.
• Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is calling on the California Supreme Court to overturn Proposition 8.
• And a famous Utah business marriage, that of WordPerfect's Bruce Bastian and Alan Ashton, has gone to Splitsville.
16 Comments:
Boycott Utah?
Why don't they boycott California? This was California's vote, not Utah's. A majority of California voters supporterd prop 8.
It's truly amazing that prop 8 opponents can attribute their defeat to a small, backwater state like Utah.
A disproportionate share of those voting for prop 8 came from blacks and Latinos, like those folks are going to listen to a bunch of Mormons from Utah.
Utah is too easy of a target. It's much smaller than California and there are already built-in prejudices against Utah that prop 8 opponents can capitalize on.
Anon, the Mormon Church spearheaded and funded the majority of the attack in California and Arizona. In California, Prop 8 was polling badly and expected to lose until the cash and man-power infusion from the Church. Then, the lying attack ads for Prop 8 came, funded by the Church (gays will force your church to gay-marry everyone, boo!, gays and your children, boo, boo!).
The Church is based in Utah, Utah's state government is pretty beholden to the Church, ergo, attack Utah if you want to hurt the bastards.
Come on. I don't care how backwater you think your state is. When a religion which is headquartered there funds millions of dollars attacking other people's families in other states, it's gonna have negative consequences on the state itself.
And if you're Mormon, Anon, have the balls to stand by what your Church did.
I'm fine with them boycotting Utah. I mean, really, whatever makes them feel better about themselves.
The funny part is how much the gay community asks for "tolerance" of their beliefs yet they don't show any tolerance at all for anyone else's beliefs. They're all for "freedom of speech", but only if they're the ones talking.
Why is it that free citizens can't donate their own money (the church itself didn't donate a penny) to support something they personally believe in? Why is there so much hatred in the gay community toward anyone who dares oppose them? What about tolerance and love?
Jason,
First off, I'm not Mormon so I don't have to stand behind what the LDS Church did. I'm a moderate Libertarian and would have voted against prop 8 if I lived in California.
Second, when do people start taking responsibility for their own actions? In this case, Californians volunatarily supported prop 8. No one forced them to.
It's interesting how people spin the outcome of popular elections. If the "wrong" side wins, it's because the other side "bought" the election. If the right side wins, then the people have spoken. Whatever.
Last week, the people in California spoke. You didn't like the outcome, and neither did I, but let's place the blame where it belongs, in California.
The LDS Church has provided leadership nationally against marriage equality for 15 years. Relative to Prop 8 it provided leadership, strategy, media, messaging, campaign personnel, and volunteers and most of the money. The campaign was run and funded out of downtown Salt Lake City. Without the Mormon Church Prop 8 wouldn't have even been on the ballot, let alone have won.
Gays and lesbians, by defending themselves against the Church's efforts to take away their rights, are not taking away rights from Mormons. To accuse them of intolerance would be like the Ku Klux Klan accusing the NAACP of intolerance.
I hope to he*l that Californians boycott Utah.
That means less traffic, fewer troubled teens roaming our malls, more room on the slopes, a larger housing inventory, 1/2 the student enrollment at BYU, fewer gangs, and no more crappy fast food (El Pollo Loco...).
Sterotyping is so fun!
Tolerance for intolerance is not a virtue, 2nd Anon. Besides, you seem to have an issue with confusing the Right to Speak with the consequences of Speaking. You do have the full freedom of speech, but we also have the freedom to point out your hypocrisy, bigotry, and the injustice that you do.
The Mormon Church encouraged people to work and donate for Prop 8. Plus, you are either ignorant or are lying about the Church's donations.
The hate comes from removing civil rights of other people. Do you need to approve the Protestant's marriage down the street? How about those atheists, who got married without any involvement with a church what-so-ever?
Then why do you need to codify your personal religious belief that another couple's marriage shouldn't be recognized by the state as equal to your own? Does your religious beliefs justify funding ads that use lies to achieve your desires?
Love comes from genuinely caring about someone, not some love-the-sinner/hate-the-sin bull. Love is not attacking with lies. Love is not sending the marriages of 16000 people into a legal purgatory and denying their friends any attempt of marriage themselves.
3rd Anon, yes it was ultimately the people of California. As 4th Anon points out, though, the proposition was polled as losing. Then, a series of attack ads, funded by the Church involving lies regarding schools, children, and gays. By appealing to the baser instinct of fear, the campaign managed to squeak a win.
It's hard to deny that the Church heavily influenced the success of Prop 8.
You can call it ignorance, but I never before felt that the Mormon Church was an enemy of gay rights. Southern baptist, Phelps, sure. So when the Church reveals itself as a 600-lb gorilla willing to intervene in other people's marriages, against other people's rights, in states where it has a small presence, it surprised a great many people. The Church came from behind and smacked my Californian friends upside their heads. You'd be surprised how much bad will that generates.
/Heck, does anybody use any sort of identity around here? It's like an Anon party, I tells ya!
This type of publicity is only good in the long run.
People are seeing how intolerant the LGBT community is of anyone with opposing views, and groups who actually have the backbone to stand up for their values are becoming targets. LDS have suffered through a lot more than this for standing up for what they believe is right.
Jason:
There are two rebuttals to your argument.
What rights did the LGBT community lose that they don't have under civil unions? The LGBT community is outraged that there are people who don't approve of their lifestyle rather than being denied any real rights.
The term "marriage" should have never been been applied to homosexual unions in the first place. The people voted in 2000, and activist judges overturned the will of the people.
When the Supreme Court ruled that Prop 22 was unconstitutional in May--same sex marriage became a constitutional right. Prop 8 then, for the first time in American history, took away a constitutional right whether that was right or wrong.
America is suppose to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. The majority in the 60s did not want to end segregation, but the minority was protected. The majority does not rule when it involves rights. That is why we have checks and balances. That is also why it is so difficult to change the U.S. Constitution.
If civil unions are the same as marriage why don't hetrosexuals go get a civil union? Because it is not the same as marriage.
Equating the gay marriage issue to a civil rights issue is doomed to failure, just ask the AFRICAN AMERICANS and other minorities (latino, asian) who voted overwhelmingly against gay marriage.
There is a difference between being property of someone else, being told to use a different restroom and sitting at the back of the bus versus forcing others to view your private sexual behavior as normal.
Hey Jason:
I think that $2071 donated by the LDS Church really tipped the scales.
If you want to promote the gay lifestyle, feel free. Just make sure you allow for those who disagree to exercise their rights in our beloved democratic republic. Otherwise, you're just another social-liberal hypocrite.
Actually, everyone involved is exercising their rights, but it's only the people who supported and voted for prop 8 who were interested in depriving others of their rights. For a period of time in California, same-sex couples had the right to marry. The supporters of prop 8 wished to take that right away. There's no getting around that. If you don't think gay people should be allowed to marry, fine, just say so--but don't spew some nonsense about how you're exercising your right to free speech by taking away the rights of others.
http://www.570knrs.com/pages/bobs_blog.html
Sometimes he misses it, but Bob hit this one pretty close.
Jason,
I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and I voted yes to proposition 102. That is the Arizona initiative to define marriage as "one man and one woman." Here's why I voted yes. I'm here; you’re here, everyone's here because they have a mom and dad. Two dads can't make a child. Two moms can't make a child. It has never worked and will never work. You think you were the first to think that same sex marriage will work? You’re wrong. Look at history. Every culture that tried it failed. Every one!
This isn't a rights issue. This is a moral issue. You have not had any rights taken away. Marriage is not a right. A state can deny anyone a marriage license. This country is based on order. You pass same sex marriage, then you've got to pass polygamy, incest, heck you might even let people marry their farm animals. You open minded enough for all that?
This is a moral issue Jason. Any individual or religious organization has the right to take a stance on moral issues. The fact of the matter is, your parent's parents, and their parent's parents going way back established marriage for moral reasons. It was and is essential for social order than and it is essential now.
WE HOPE THE GAYS BOYCOTT ALL OF THE WESTERN STATES. PLEASE KEEP YOUR MONEY AND YOUR GERMS IN CA. AND MAYBE THE 'BIG' ONE WILL HIT AND ALL OF YOU FOLKS WILL FLOAT OUT TO SEA. THANK-YOU UTAH FOR HELPING KEEP THEM IN CA.
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