Prop 8 demonstration in SLC
Protesters at the LDS Temple in Los Angeles.Proposition 8 bans same-sex marriages in California, but was heavily supported by the Utah-based LDS church.
One Salt Lake City activist emails:
Twenty-one years ago, (1977), Barack Obama would not have been able to hold the priesthood in the Mormon Church - because of the color of his skin.Interestingly, African-American voters showed little support for the same-sex marriage issue in the election.
I bring this up, because that was wrong. The LDS Church was wrong in 1977 on civil rights, and they are wrong today.
Proposition 8 is not just a gay and lesbian issue. It is a CIVIL RIGHTS issue.
55 Comments:
The e-mail activists math leaves a little to be desired. 21 years ago and 1978 don't add up to 2008.
Both sides of the debate seem to be ignoring the most clear-cut proof of the Mormon Church's sickening hypocrisy: Ovwer a century ago, the Federal Government, believing nthat it was "protecting the definition of marriage," forced the Mormons to cease their practice of polygamy. In 2008, that same church is displaying the very same bigotry and hate that was once directed against them. The situations are EXACTLY parallel, but the church and its sycophants compound their hate with dishonesty by denying it.
(And I am ashamed to say that I am a graduate of BYU: BS, 1968)
The LDS Church played a big role, to be sure, in rallying support for Prop 8. But don't forget, it was a coalition of black, latino and other evangelical Christian churches that truly prevailed here.
I would love to see evangelicals switch their course from trying to fight a culture war to living the faith they profess; that would be far more effective in winning souls than usurping the role of judgment that belongs to Another.
stan,
In 1890, the mormons stopped the practice, and later kicked out those who continued. Is the gay religion (yes, religion) willing to stop?
Gay Religion? What kind of an asinine statement is that?
Yeah, I'm done with church. I used to work as a missionary in the developing world, and I came home to see this is the crap Christians are spending their money and energy on.
Church is boring, it's a big damn waste of resources and it's just another way to separate people from each other.
I feel much closer to God now that I have quit church.
This is amazing and appalling to me that these groups can be out in front of the Mormon Church waiving signs like "Mormons go to hell". This kind of practice should be banned from all aspects of protest. It is no different than the persecution of Jews in Germany from the Nazi’s of the 1930’s and forties.
If this was happening in front of a Jewish temple, the backlash would be great from the Jewish community as well as the government and ACLU...I can't believe what I am witnessing...It is shameful to be true and a sad day in US history. The democratic process is in place to govern our lands…it was followed and now the loser of the process wants to challenge its validity? WOW…this can’t be happening!!!
I had to go through all of this to include signs being stolen and my house being egged, just to define the word marriage. It has been decided…go find your own word if you don’t like Domestic Partners…change that…but don’t try to vilify and intimidate African Americans and Mormons and Christians just because your side was able to raise more money than the Yes side…and you still were not able to get the job done…it is the process…work within the process. Quit trying to change the process just because it does not suit your agenda.
Domestic partners have the same rights in CA (Still, even after the vote) as married couples. They can file a joint tax return; get dependant health care from their employer, visitation in the hospitals and inheritance.
I am Catholic and I don’t particularly agree with all aspects of the Mormon Church, but I thank them for their support and I stand with them as all religious groups should in this time of outlandish acts or hate and deceit.
“The right to amend California’s constitution is not granted to the People, it reserved by the People” (Andrew Pugno).
"Warriors come out to play!"
If you are an unranked Saturday's Warrior that identifies as queer, or is in support of those that are queer and fighting for civil rights within America, and you wish to stand together to let the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints know that they cannot take these political stances in our names whether we are active or inactive in their church.
Please contact me if you are interested in taking a stand, I am organizing a group to remove our names from the church records and proclaim publicly that they may "draw near to [God] with their lips but their hearts are far from him."
Each General Conference the LDS church claims growth through conversion and baptisms of 8 year olds. Let's rock the records and show them how many of us truly are within their ranks and forced to "Don't Ask Don't Tell" in God's Army.
If nothing else perhaps they will awaken to the fact that Control is Control even if it is protecting the "Glory" of traditional families, and Agency is what we opted for in this life.
Just Jill
March nn Mormon Temples - Sunday November 23, 2008
Nationwide - portest at your local Temple!
I'm very angry with how the LDS Church has interjected itself in this debate. I also think the criticism and protest is valid.
If the church involves itself so heavily in politics it should expect as much. You can't be a political action committee and then when things get heated, claim you're an innocent church.
Having said all that, it is heartening to know that not ALL Mormons supported Proposition 8. From reading the SLC Tribune, I've learned that many LDS members have stood bravely with the forces of fairness and against church elders and even family members.
It's nice to know and is noted.
Marriage is an historical institution and has value in society. Whether or not a person is religious, it has always been recognized that marriage is between a man and a woman. No one is taking away ANY rights from the gay community by supporting YES on 8, the gay community ALREADY has equality through the law CA. As a matter of fact, last year, CA allowed Registered Domestic Partners to file a Joint tax return. Just like a married couple! This WILL NOT CHANGE. For your further information, heterosexual couples have to be 62 or older to qualify. Gay RDP actually have MORE rights than heterosexual couples.
This is going to come back to bite the church in its pasty white butt. I've already seen calls for boycotts of Utah on various blogs, and I think you can kiss Mitt's chances in 2012 goodbye. Yes, it was a coalition of other groups, but the Mormons were the most visible and it's toward them that the anger is being directed.
Give the ultimate credit to Gavin Newsom--for pulling the mask of the pompous,arrogant, and in-your-face attitude of the gay community. This was what turned the tide for California to say yes to Prop. 8--WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!
Ah, now we see the true colors of the debase, Neanderthal liberal homosexual marketing machine. No intelligence. No arguments. Just "go to hell signs, threats, and intimidation.
Let me get this strait (pun intended). The people of California honestly followed the due course of law. And now the minority want to break down the process of law and resort to anarchy, vandalism and intimidation to get what they want?
No, THIS will come back to bite them. I guarantee the decent, honest, children raising men and women of this nation (the vast majority), are watching this closely and have seen your true colors. The next states will be a breeze to ban homosexual marriage.
Wow....I didn't realize how many californians listen to the follow the teachings of the LDS Church! Those california voters are all just a bunch of sheep!.....this kind of publicity will actually have a favorable impact on the church....its like all these gay protestors are actually missionaries for the church! Keep it up Elders!
So placing some signs on private property stating VOTE YES ON PROPOSTITION 8, and making phone calls to encourage people to support it, and placing some ads on TV to also promote its passing are grounds for the turnabout of heated verbal profanity and vulgarity, property defamation (look at the photos), and littering. Sounds like fanatical activism to me, but wait what are laws for anyway. They just prohibit the freedom of choice right. Wrong! They establish responsibility and accountability.
Your high class rallies that are so peaceful that riot police come out in full force are definitely helping your cause. Keep up your bigotry, your hate, and your continual misuse of the term civil rights. Stop comparing your choice with the color of a person's skin or ethnic heritage. You have every right that I have.
You just can't handle living within a system of majority rule. That's democracy or rule of the majority however you may see it. The majority has spoken. Do us all a favor and be civil in your rallies, peaceful in your assemblies, and faithful in your commitments.
"It is no different than the persecution of Jews in Germany from the Nazi’s of the 1930’s and forties."
How dare you, sir? The Nazis actually killed thousands of homosexuals in the Holocaust (to the indifference of your pope, I may add). What a vile, vile farce that now you attempt to portray these people who wish to speak out against an organized group that donated millions and millions of dollars and other efforts to actively work to discriminate against them as the "nazis" in this case. Shame on you. Shame.
Homosexuality is a MORAL issue, not a "civil rights" issue.
These protestors are only hurting their cause by being so violent and offensive.
Why do you even give these . . . any space in the news whatsoever? They need to go back into the closet. You think the LDS Church is the only ones that hate the immorality? Think again!!!!
Homosexuality IS a civil rights issue--more than choosing to be a Mormon, I'd add. I'd tell you to check the genetic science on it but I know we're dealing with a bunch of people who believe that Adam rode around on a dinosaur. I can't wait til the day the hateful ignorance of organized religion is wiped off the face of the Earth. I bet God can't, either.
You really out to get your facts straight...Here's the link to the article http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/1378391.html
70 percent – of black voters in California who voted for Proposition 8 and helped secure its passage, according to exit polling conducted by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International.
Also...Latinos were 18 percent of California's voters, and through sheer numbers also contributed to Proposition 8's success. But 53 percent of Latino voters supported the measure. Among white and Asian voters, 49 percent voted for the measure.
It is amazing that the LDS church is getting so much credit for the passage of this prop! I'm a gay man in SF bay area, and I too voted YES on Prop 8. I've lost nothing...my partner of 17 years and I still have every right afforded to us as any hetrosexual couple...We didn't think it was right for parents to lose their rights over their own childern! Kudos to all those that help pass this!!!
"We didn't think it was right for parents to lose their rights over their own childern!"
The election's over, the Yes on 8 people can stop spreading this outright LIE.
It's not a LIE...you really out to get YOUR fact straight! And still...I've lost nothing!!! Wake up and fight for something other than your personal issue to shove your sexuality in everyone elses face! Give it a rest yourself!
Why couldn't the LDS Church speak up on a issue about Prop 8 to protect the traditional institution of marriage? Now Californian (I am one of them) passed Prop 8, why people blame the church for its passage? We as a people as a right to vote, to speak up and to contribute money to cause we believe in. No on 8 side is resorting to rioting. They kept citing civil right, yet their behavior is not civil at all.
I'm so glad you said that!!! Gay's have all the same rights as Straits, you just can't use the word married. We don't go around shoving our straitness in your face with rallies and demonstrations. If you want to be gay, be gay. Stop trying to force your CHOICE on everyone else!!!
You can try to whitewash the facts, but it's clear the Mormons had a HUGE effect on the outcome of the Proposition, mainly by providing the funding (nearly half) and the manpower (through their wards and stakes) to "get out the word."
Despite what you think, MANY Americans mistrust the Mormons because they are so holier than thou and mysterious about their temples.
2000 61% against gay marriage
2008 52% against gay marriage
Despite all the money the bigots threw against us, you are LOSING the battle. And despite the claims of "activist judges," you only claim they are activist when they go against conservative religious values.
America is changing. Too bad the Mormons are going to be left behind once again.
I agree with the previous statement that you cannot compare ethnic heritage with a choice.
DNA stuff right?
I'm a biological Scientist.
The funny thing about science of that degree is it can be twisted to say whatever you want.
My favorite to date that was brought to my attention was a man who raped his daughter in Austrailia and claims he was born that way and should be exhonerated.
Yeah right.
Plain and simple There is no Concrete Science that dictates a person must be homosexual as there is a person must be of colored skin.
Therefore this cannot be a civil rights movement.
I voted in 2000 against the ban and even though it was turned around I felt betrayed by my supreme court. They ignored the voters and overturned them.
This year as a testement to our democratic system I voted yes.
I think its funny how the "gay rights" movement has to go around the voters back to get thier agenda passed.
If its such an issue they should propose thier own amendment get it on the ballot and voted upon instead of vilifying a church.
As a side note Marriage is not a fundemental right protected in the US constitution.
Pursuit of happiness does not equivicate into right to marry.
Gay, Straight doesnt matter.
Noone has the right to marry its a courtesy granted by each state.
All this demonstrating only serves one purpose your all a bunch of sore losers and have to blame someone. And why not the LDS Church? I loved the news article about the rally in LA. The president of the GLBT made it sound like Mr. Monson was soley responsible for the passage of 8 rather than 5million votes.
Grow up. Follow Due Legal process.
Or get out of my country I fight to defend everyday.
The LDS church is one of many groups to support prop 8. They were picked as the easy target for the protests. Don't be mad at the system of the people. The people of America voted against is a few years ago and they voted against it again. It's the people who voted for prop 8, not the LDS church organization.
Praise the land for the people, by the people!
Falk's this is not just about gay right's I think Utah has a bigger problem and its a true and real discrimination against everybody who is not from here and is not Mormon. I lived all over Usa and I never experienced such of fake hate,discrimination and pressure from LDS influnece.This has to be reported and we need massive demonstrations here in SLC so national TV can come and see what is going on.Now, I have nothing against any religion as long as they keep it for them self's,but here they try to influence every aspect of life even job market. I can't find a simple job here just because I am not LDS.Is this America 2008,wake up people,wake up.Who is next?Immigrants,blacks.latinos or anyone who is not Lds.
If you can't get a job in Utah you may want to look at your resume and work history.
Also its a state thing
Right to work.
I feel the same as you but I don't blame the LDS church for the Right to Work policy.
What I hear from you about not being able to keep a job is that you are lazy, late, and don't perform. A common plague all America Faces. Pay me money I don't want to work for it....
And yes I live here and work here.
Why do you have to vilify the LDS church because your lazy?
The only thing LDS'er have accomplished in denouncing Polygamy was to put it on paper for all those concerned, to see. The fact is that the Church and the Utah Gov't has turned a blind eye to the problem or forced the sects move to AZ., CO.,NM., NV. and now TX.So please spare the self-righteous crap.
When was the last "real" prosecution of polygamy, in Utah?
Whitewash? LOL! You me Gaywash!
Open Letter to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints by Mormon Lesbian.
Please feel free to share with anyone.
To those in Favor of Proposition 8:
President Thomas S. Monson, The First Presidency, Quorum of the Twelve, and all the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (The Mormons) that have supported financially or through the calling and writing to support Proposition 8.
I am writing this letter to speak out as one of your previous members, who still has their name contained within the records of your Church. In writing this letter, I took great care to consider my parents, and greater family. I had always thought that I would not seek to remove my name as I felt that would hurt my parents. At this time I am reconsidering this and I may be moving forward with a call out to all gay Mormons to follow suit.
The reason I am brought to this point is the open attack which you as a Church body have made in the efforts to see Proposition 8 passed within the state of California. Not only is this a clear issue of Church and State but this also speaks to the foundation of your Church in what you claim to be Truth when you send missionaries throughout the world.
In seeking to take away the rights of other human souls, you have not only brought yourself in line with other "Christian" groups known as "The Great & Abominable" but you have also placed your own founding works on the line to be scrutinized as your current actions speak of hypocrisy.
First, you are in violation of at least 6 of the 13 Articles of Faith as penned by Joseph Smith the Prophet and founder of the LDS faith. If Joseph Smith is not a prophet then the church he founded is not true!
Second, you are in stepping forward to enact Control and take away citizenry rights of others, when your Church principles are based almost wholly on the principle of Agency.
Third, in claiming to be the "Church of Jesus Chris of Latter Day Saints" and yet actively disseminating hatred and intolerance when Christ's ultimate sacrifice was made to Atone for all of our sins if we but keep the true and great commandment of "Love One Another." Then are you truly Christian?
I urge you to reconsider your statements, action, and publicity and in turn offer an apology to the people of California and to gay people across the world.
There is no doubt in my mind that many of you, although you may still have young children have members of your own family that do identify or eventually will identify as queer. Think of this possibility. Think also of the statistic of suicide within your own state of Utah, and how many young people take their lives, a statistic that is critically higher than many other states per capita. Think of what message you are sending your children, neighbors, and potential converts to your Church.
If you claim to be the true and living Church on the earth as I know that you do, then you must answer to these three issues. You cannot serve two masters, one made a plan for Control, another made a plan of Agency. In the end Agency gives us the right to choose and a savior is necessary for us to return to God in Heaven. Are you saying you are greater than Christ?
You decide now which one you will continue to support, I know for myself I will continue to choose Agency, and whether you are successful in passing this legislation you will not affect my choice to Love whom I choose.
I urge you for your own sakes to reconsider your position.
Regards,
Just Jill:
Bradford, Peck, Knight, Palmer, Kartchner, Fox, Benson, Burrup, Birch, Knudsen, Henderson
(Ancestry to the Mayflower where they risked their lives to have the right to believe "according to the dictates of conscience.")
Thank you to all member of the Church of LDS who contributed to the passage of Proposition 8.
There are LDS members here that act like they are better than others because of who they are and where they live, but that is very small portion. The state goes to the church for help in what ever the agenda, it's not the church influencing the state. The church has always remained neutral on political matters, they didn't even endorse Mitt Romney for crying out loud! The church is not why you can't get a job, you are why you can't get a job. So look in the mirror before you start pointing the finger of blame!
It's very sad to see so many "LDS" people or "soon-to-be-former" LDS people who are so upset by the church's stand on Prop. 8.
Hello? Doesn't the prophet speak for the Lord? Did God create Adam & Bruce in the beginning? Read your Bible people....NO where does it say being gay is good, or right, or is OK.
If you want to follow the Prophet...do so, if not...don't make the LDS church a "buffet religion." ("I'll agree with this and this...but NOT that!")
Either the church is true, or it's not...and many of the prophets have said that the gap between the church and the world will only get wider as time goes on....this is proof of that.
To the one who wrote the novel. Marriage is not a right, it is a privilage. One that AMERICA has now voted on twice in the past few years, and both times voted it to be between a man and a woman. You being of the church know of the strength of it's beliefs. If it didn't stand up for its beliefs would you still respect it as a faith or would you take your name from the records because their not a strong enough faith? Stop living and preaching a double standard of what you think the church should stand for.
Keep your religions to yourself!If you don't like ABORTION, DON"T HAVE ONE!!!!
If you are against HOMOSEXUALITY,
DON"T PRACTICE IT>
IFYOU DON"T LIKE "GAY MARRIAGE"
DON"T marry one!
Uh...duh, dude...society sets the rules by which it lives by...that's why you can't murder someone, steal from others, or GET married if you're gay.
Being against murder also means that society has to enforce laws to stop it....just as society has a right to PASS laws that keep society moral!
The people of CA. passed a law, it's time for people to quit claiming "poor me" or "I want to marry." Society has a law that says I can't yell "FIRE" in a crowded auditorium...but waaaaa...I WANT to yell "FIRE....IT'S NOT FAIR!!"
Sheesh...get over it.
and which civil rights EXACTLY are these people claiming are denied them?
Domestic Partners in California have all rights heterosexual couples enjoy except for the federal rights. Those rights will need to be obtained outside the state of California.
This morning on KSL radio I heard a protester say if he moves from California to another state, their relationship may not be recognized by that state.
Again, how is that a California problem? Go to the Fed and work with other states to pass Domestic Partner laws.
Otherwise I'm not understanding the problem here. I'm getting the impression it's not civil rights they are wanting. It's clearly something else.
Ok,for all of you LDS church members,the reason I can't get a decent job here in SLC is because I have my standards and also education.The thing is,employers here are very dishonest,fake and they never call you as they promise they will .I live here for a long time and I know how people here are.LDS church has a huge influence on people minds and yes your church is a master manipulation for all people that live here.You guys have 'rules' that are extreme so are your hiring rules.Now the fact that you judge and can recognize anyone who is not like you is the main reason I never get a job offers and I don't want to work for everybody .I got fired many times because I had liberal and democratic views and anyone who is open minded here will get in trouble.But guess what I don't need your F jobs and your mercy .I am better and smarter than your small Utah world philosophy. I will never agree with you and I will not move from here because this is America and not a Mormonland.I will stand for my rights and will not be quiet until you change your rules and let real democracy shine here as well.You can not be ignorant and treat other people with disrespect just because they look and think different. Again I don't hate any religion but you guys are crossing the boundary with your rules .Someone got to talk about this and I am not the only one.
Respond to Post 4:48,
Don't you realize that a democracy means that the majority has the right to establish moral codes. If the people in Utah declare a moral stand and vote it into law, then THAT IS THERE RIGHT IN A DEMOCRACY!!
You seem to want to live under tyranny or under a dictatorship. Wake up buddy!!! Whatever area you live in there will always be those that disagree with you.
Have you ever thought of moving to the Bible Belt. I'm sure there would be laws there that you wouldn't agree with either. You left liberal factions are destroying this country.
It started with the drugged up sixties, and has continued to spread like a terrible disease and thanks to loud mouthed people like yourself that want nothing more than to force your evils on the masses.
The church doesn't fit into you ideology because they informed the people and encouraged them to vote. I don't see any of you commenting on how President Elect Obama bought his election with all the fundraising that he did. These kinds of comments are absurd. I wish our new President succuss and safety. He will need the faith based prayer of this people to strengthen him in his hours of difficulty. I didn't vote for him because I don't agree with his socialistic values that will make an individual like yourself even less productive after the big checks start rolling in.
That's sufficient for me right now. The majority voted and we have a new energetic, charismatic President. The people of California voted and a moral stand has been upheld. Live with it.
I fail to see why Brad Pitt and Steven Spielberg and Ellen Degeneres making massive donations to a cause they believe in is ok but when a lot of people who happen to be Mormon decide to donate what time and money they can to fight for something they believe in it's called bigotry, hatred, and discrimination. I'd say that's pretty hypocritical.
In my opinion the fact that 70% of African Americans voted Yes on Prop 8 speaks to what they think of their claims that this is a civil rights issue. Marriage is not and never has been a fundamental right in America.
Money talks and b.s. walks....
Boycott the ski resorts and the Sundance Film Festival....Move the festival to Jackson Hole....It has been moved from Sundance to Park City....Another move is in order.
"Yeah, I'm done with church. I used to work as a missionary in the developing world,"
I agree with every word you said. I've decided to have my name removed, too. My brother is gay, but my parents sent money to fight this stupid election. They choose the church over their own child. Now they've lost two sons.
I just want to remind readers that not all Latter-Day Saints are in favor of the LDS Church's actions against the passing of Proposition 8. I am a recent [and straight] convert to the Church. I am so proud to live in a country in which I am free to practice my religion and in which I was able to marry the man of my dreams. To be able to live, worship, and yes - marry - as I choose is a blessing I often take for granted. I cannot imagine trying to deny someone else those rights. For this reason I am ardently opposed to the Church's involvement in trying to prevent homosexual couples from trying to get married.
PS: Homosexual couples are not looking to get "gay married." They are pursuing the legal right to get MARRIED in the same way that my husband and I are not "straight married," but married. "Gay marriage" is not what homosexuals are after; they are seeking the freedom to marry whoever they choose and have that marriaged be considered just as valid as the legal union of a woman and man.
I guess this question is "what is marriage?" I view it as being the union of a man and a woman. If two men or two women love each other, why do they have to get married? I love my male and female friends and hope to be with them forever. Why take the word marriage to those relationships? Marriage is a definition. The rights we commonly associate with marriage are available to all.
A church or religion that is heavily authoritarian like the LDS church does indeed get the blame when it asks its members to put effort into a civil matter. Because who is really going to be comfortable saying no to God or his representatives (church leaders) if they ask something of the members? It's practically an edict!
So even if the tax-exempt status being called into question doesn't pan out, you still have a breach of ethics. The church doesn't get to pretend it merely suggested pure involvement however members feel on the issue. It specified which side members ought to be on, and implied God's authority (just by being The Church - they don't have to use any force), AND provided church resources and networks (which are in place for religious matters, but used here as a political action committee) to organize the effort.
How convenient. Too bad the No On Prop 8 side didn't have ready-made, decades-old wards, phone trees, a densely-packed social network to spread the word, a handy tithing/donation system people were already used to ALWAYS giving to, and super religious authority for its efforts!
The church is already technically a corporation (it's in the official name!)... why not a PAC, too? Just be honest about it! Pay the taxes! Be fair to the other PACs who have to pay, or they can't compete with a PAC masquerading as a tax-exempt religion!
But really, ethics. When members can think their god is demanding a certain action through his mouthpieces, they don't have a choice. The church brought to bear political coercion. This is more important, IMHO, than tax status.
How is being black akin to preferring unnatural sex? I have inclinations to steal but repress those inclinations because they are wrong. I guess we should all give in to wrong inclinations.
Thank God for the Mormons and for their help in passing prop 8. A spark of light shines in a ever darkening world!
Public law discriminates against those practices that are harmful to society, i.e. tobacco laws, alcohol, pronography, etc.
History has shown that European countries supporting SSM have higher rates of broken homes, abortion, and multiple partners and higher incidence of STD's.
I'm still waiting to hear how SSM is beneficial to my society. I don't want to pay for their welfare burden.
The guilty taketh the truth to be hard for it cutteth them to the very center.
everyone that is worked up needs to chill out. To the gay community in california: what have you really lost? the word "marriage"? can you still be gay? yes you can, can you still have a little ceremony to celebrate a joining partnership and enjoy the same benrfits like hetro-marriage? yes you can. Just think, without the word marriage, divorce is a lot cheaper. Stop using the Lds church in Utah as a scapegoat and go bug the millions in CALI that voted for it. To the proponents of prop. 8, please stop antagonizing the gay community, their feeling are hurt. I personally voted against it because I have 3 wives in L.A. and if the gays can get married then it's only a matter of time before polegemy is legal again as I fight for marriage rights! Now will all of you shut the hell up so we can concentrate on something of real importance, like the LAKERS!
Many of you speak about democracy as though it is absolute rule by the people. What you fail to realize is that the point of democracy is to strike a balance between the public interest and the FUNDAMENTAL human RIGHTS of the individual. Our nation was founded on the ideals that a single majority should not be able to squash those at the bottom; that there are certain aspects of life that cannot be denied or controlled; and that while a majority of people may want one thing, if it extinguishes rights, it may never be passed. These ideals are written in a document that founded our nation. Perhaps you've heard of it? It's called the Constitution.
We have seen this before. People have VOTED to ban the marriage of white people and people of color. Legislators have PASSED LAWS saying women can't vote. As a lawyer, I can tell you this: voting to pass a law does not make it lawful. Our Constitution trumps the vote, always. Stop suggesting that democracy equals a vote. It is much more than that.
Consequently, it is completely fair for those against Proposition 8 to point a finger at the LDS Church. Why not? Even assuming that the Church did not play the biggest role, the truth of the matter is that they played. And if you're going to get in the game, you better be willing to face criticism from those you attack and from those who disagree.
The right to marriage IS a right. If straight couples received all the same ECONOMIC benefits of marriage, but had no right to be married, I can hardly imagine that you'd say it was "the same." It is a right because it is about recognition, about personhood and autonomy, about love and ability to define your relationship with another.
For those that suggest it is a question of morality, you may also be correct, for you are entitled to that opinion. But whose morality is it about? And if it's about YOUR LDS morality, then it certainly has no place in the realm of rights. Your church may full well choose to not marry a gay couple, but that moral decision cannot be imputed to other churches, temples, synagogues, mosques, or government entities.
I urge all of you - LDS or not - to THINK about the implications of what you are saying, how you are voting, and what this nation is founded on - a recognition that the majority is not always right, but as history has shown us, often wrong.
To Jacob:
You have a right to your opinion, but don't make it a law. Give people their Free Agency.
Please take a minute to watch the Keith Olberman video on the internet (Countdown with Keith Olberman). I urge all the bloggers here to watch it. It's only fair.
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