Following Prop 8's cash
The chickens of democracy may be coming home to roost for thousands of secret supporters of California's Proposition 8.A federal judge has rejected arguments to keep the names of contributors to the anti-gay marriage initiative hidden. U.S. District Judge Morrison England says that many campaign committees use vague names and the public has a right to know who actually put up the cash:
If there ever needs to be sunshine on a political issue, it is with a ballot measure.Prop 8's defenders fear public disclosure will subject the donors to harassment and boycotts of their businesses. Much of the financial support of the issue came from members of the Mormon church in California and Utah.
The California commission that enforces campaign disclosure laws has already ruled that most of what opponents of gay marriage call harassment and boycotts amounts to free speech.
17 Comments:
maybe this judge can get Obama to list donors to his presidential campaign and donors to Bill Clinton's foundation. So much for transparency.
I know I will have no problem boycotting businesses who supported prop 8! If someone doesn't believe that it is ok to have different beliefs than others I don't have to support them.
America is an awesome place there is no denying that!
I have no problems with boycotting such businesses either, or marching around churches -- that is a legitimate use of the info. But gay-marriage activists have also created online maps of the private residences of the donors, which is almost certainly going to be ruled illegal as harrassment, placing all the disclosure at risk. The extremity of some Prop 8 opponents is hurting the movement.
Anonymous at 8:26, the donors to Prop 8 are not afraid of boycotts, what they are afraid and tired of is the hateful invasion of privacy.
Again, the homsexual community lacks leadership ala Dr. King to tell people who do put peoples homes on maps to quit and put their efforts in to boycotts and other peaceful forms of protest.
I was encouraged by the young gay people who recently went and spoke with Senator Buttars. Did they change his vote? Mayybe not. Bidd they open a dialouge for eventual good? Yes, and they did it without putting his house on some map or marching around in his driveway. This is the type of leadership the gay community sorely lacks, even from its national leaders in Congress.
I know that I've been using the lists to avoid businesses that I do not support. Maps with the private residences are more complicated. On one hand, the people have a right to protest in front of someone's house from the public property of a sidewalk or street. People have the right to confront their accusers in a court of law, and they should similarly have the right to confront and argue to those whose political activities they disagree with. If you are personally uncomfortable with defending your political views publicly, then you should avoid publicly supporting your political views.
The big downside is that things like Google maps can be inaccurate, pointing at the wrong house. People also move, as well. It's good to get an idea of the general density of donors in your area, but a heat map would probably be much more appropriate.
If people use the maps and lists to damage property (graffiti, etc), or threaten someone with violence, that is already illegal and should be prosecuted by police and the judicial system.
That said, this works both ways. I seem to remember that the Yes on Prop 8 used the donor lists to send threatening messages to businesses who worked against the campaign. In Utah, the people who donated "No" may have more personal risk, as I believe that businesses could use such data to fire employees and landlords could evict renters.
I know I will have no problem boycotting businesses who supported prop 8! If someone doesn't believe that it is ok to have different beliefs than others I don't have to support them.
America is an awesome place there is no denying that!
And I have no problem boycotting businesses who were against Prop 8. Let's get that list out so we can have transparency both ways.
I don't like the idea that people would map the houses of donors and possible protest at their home. But I also know that it was a common practice for "Pro Life" groups to protest at the homes of Dr's who provided abortions.
It was allowed because it was considered free speach. So why would this be any different. The idea is the same regardless of the issue.
Businesses SHOULD feel scared that they will be boycotted. People don't want to give us equal rights, but they sure want our tax money, spending money, and disposable income.
Businesses who are becoming "gay friendly" are reaping the rewards of opening up to a HUGE demographic with HIGH income, if you want to push us away, by all means do, but don't feel you should be "protected" from being boycotted, we'll take our money to businesses that appreciate us and view us as equal human beings.
Why is it a problem to provide maps with the addresses of donors' private residences? If that's how they disclosed their identities, such information is public anyway.
This is all blowback from the momos attempt to extort money from those of us who donated large sums of money to defeat prop 8. I received a letter "threatening" to expose me should I not donate an equal amount to the momos campaign - which was deceptive in addition to being hateful.
Of course no one cared. I would have been delighted to have some momo expose me as being against the cult's campaign to codify discrimination. It would have been an honor.
So, that didn't work and now they want to hide? I've got the maps on my iPhone so that I know which businesses to avoid. And, so far, the only cases of assault and harassment have been by prop h8 supporters against normal people.
These mormons and their christian buddies are freaks, and they're too stupid to be embarrassed by their own ridiculous actions.
One more legal ruling that shows how theocracy has borders that stop, even if Utards are able to pass them. Freaks.
u235sentinel - the lists are already out (over a certain threshold, anyway).
Go ahead, find businesses to avoid. Oh, it looks like you've already found one!
Blogger is a Google product, BTW, and they donated nearly $100K to defeat prop 8 - you going to switch?
Another Utard trying to be uppity. Just sad.
Moron.
Lets get a complete list of the anti 8 and create maps of their private residences so we can "boycott" them. Lets get them fired from their jobs, or just not hire them.
This is discrimination at its worst.
Did Leavitt ever recover those emails he deleted after being sued for 'transparency'?
Bill Clinton disclosed his donors and I'm a Obama contributor.
So screw you.
@ Anonymous 10:29
"Lets get a complete list of the anti 8 and create maps of their private residences so we can "boycott" them. Lets get them fired from their jobs, or just not hire them.
This is discrimination at its worst."
You're right, that is discrimination at its worst. There already is a list and unfortunately for most GLBT people that's the reality in 32 states.
u235sentinel - the lists are already out (over a certain threshold, anyway).
Go ahead, find businesses to avoid. Oh, it looks like you've already found one!
Blogger is a Google product, BTW, and they donated nearly $100K to defeat prop 8 - you going to switch?
Another Utard trying to be uppity. Just sad.
Moron.
You obviously are unable to detect sarcasm.
I posted the opposite perspective using THEIR words and you call me the Moron?
Of the two of us, who is truly in need?
Do you live under a rock?? The list of donors to Obama's campaign are, by law, available to the public. Also, Clinton has released his list of donor's to his foundation to facilitate his wife's confirmation.
How sad that the LDS Church had to lie to the legislators and the people of California. I initially supported the Mormons rights to deny a portion of California Citizens their Civil rights, now the lying and cover ups have altered my view of the holier than thou hypocrites.
It is my hope that state of California sues the LDS Church for punitive damages and violating state election laws. I also hope that the state of California takes the bold step of removing the LDS Churches Tax exempt status. If they have the deep enough pockets to violate CA state law, they can use that money for good and help fill the budget gap.
The fact that some in this thread are so misinformed about the transparency of donors to elections shows that they are asleep at the wheel. Sadly these are likely some of the Prop 8 Donors.
How sad that the LDS Church had to lie to the legislators and the people of California.
Care to cite references or is this just opinion.
Thanks
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