LDS church fires back
One way to measure the success of a newspaper columnist has always been how much that columnist pisses off the powers that be. By that standard, The Trib's Rebecca Walsh's stock has gone way up: Sunday, the LDS church's top mouthpiece ripped into Walsh in a lengthy op-ed article.
Church spokesman Michael Otterson takes Walsh to task for a recent column, "End LDS-legislator huddles," in which she questioned the annual meetings the church hosts for the Legislature's leaders. Otterson, who has had problems with the uppity Walsh before (a few years ago, she dug into how the church went about buying a block of Main Street), opens with:
Of course, it's difficult to calm someone who invariably sees a conspiracy behind every pew . . .Otterson goes on to tediously explain the church's constitutional right to meet with lawmakers. He condescending writes as if Utahns walk around with buckets on their heads. The truth is, they see clearly that from liquor sales to transportation issues, the LDS church exercises irresistible clout on the Hill. You would think a state that is trying to change its image to outsiders might want to avoid the appearance of being a theocracy, even if it often behaves like one behind the scenes.
Otterson notes:
Of course, Walsh has never been invited to these lunch meetings. I have, so I can throw a little light on what invariably happens. [Church officials simply encourage legislators to be "wise, thoughtful and compassionate."*]Glancing behind the nearest pew, I've got to wonder — why doesn't the church invite a few reporters to witness its annual lawmaker wingding?
*The lawmakers regularly ignore that advice, so maybe the church doesn't have as much sway as we think.
22 Comments:
as a life-long, non-Mormon Utahn, I feel it my civic duty to enlighten out of state family, friends and colleagues on the political happenings within Utah. I find it especially important to do so when someone, like Mitt Romney, runs for a national office. of course, because of the voting majority Mormons hold within Utah, non-Mormons will always be subject to the voting whims of the majority. but outside of Utah, Mormons are viewed with a rightfully suspicious eye. and I do my part to help educate those who don't know a few realities about Mormon's and politics. there are two main points I try to convey: first, Mormons see it as their right to impose through legislation their moral beliefs on others who do not share those moral beliefs. of course, this is not the case with all Mormons, but for the group as a whole. and Mormons are smart in how they do so. for example, they will do all they can to outlaw homosexuality. they know they can't outright make it illegal to be homosexual. but they absolutely will do all they can to take away all the rights of a homosexual and generally make that person's life as miserable as possible. a heterosexual person outside of Utah might wonder why they should be concerned about this so I tell them that Mormons consider Monday evenings as an evening that should be only for family activities. it would be completely within the psyche of a national Mormon politician to feel they have a right to mandate this through legislation to everyone. or perhaps fishing on Sunday. or drinking caffeine. if a Mormon politician had enough influence to push through Mormon doctrine, they absolutely would not think about it as taking away another person's rights but rather "enforcing their own right to not see gentiles drinking caffeine, fishing on Sunday or spending Monday evenings in activities outside of the home and family". in the case of civil rights for homosexuals, Mormons do not discriminate, they merely "enforce their own right to define the legal definition of marriage, decide who can hold a job, who can buy a home and generally who can pursue life, liberty and happiness". the second important point is that devout Mormons follow the will of the Mormon prophet and church leadership without question. for devout Mormons, the will of the prophet is the will of God. within Utah, that means the church leadership has absolute power, to the extent they choose to wield that power. for a national candidate, such as a Mormon President of the U.S., that would mean the Mormon church leadership would also have as much national influence as it chose to wield. honestly, it's not likely the church would choose to wield its influence on national or international affairs. but if the church did choose to do so, you can rest assured that a devout Mormon U.S. President would heed the will of his/her prophet. it may seem far-fetched that, while a Mormon occupied the White House, the prophet would have a revelation that Israel was immoral and needed to be cleansed. but if it did happen, a devout Mormon President would feel compelled to follow the will of God, as communicated through his prophet. or perhaps that Mormon missionaries should have the right to proselytize anyone within their homes. after all, they're not taking away anyone's right to privacy or freedom of (from) religion, they're merely enforcing the missionary’s freedom of speech. in fairness, I make a point of explaining that Mormons are really great people, sans their penchant for self-righteousness and moral bullying. I've conveyed my experiences to lots of Catholics, Southern Baptists, etc. and I hope that for each person I enlighten, they tell 5 people, and they tell 5 people, and they tell 5 people and so on.
Way to skip the meat of his op-ed. Also, just making slanderous innuendos doesn't make for a good column, but it will piss off the "powers that be" and the intelligence of the readers.
Rich, obviously you have never lived in the South, or anywhere else in the country for the matter. Your naivete is comical. Get over this "man is out to get me" mentality and look reality. If all the Mormons really do micro manage their religion on everything in the state as you believe then wouldn't fishing on Sunday or caffeine be already be outlawed as you proposed?
The fact of the matter is that the Mormon church really doesn't exercises its political weight often and does it far less then other churches or organizations in our nation.
You forgot one important point, Rich. Devout Mormons also like to read thoughts from others that show intelligence. Intelligence in written form usually includes the ability to use proper capitalization at the beginning of sentences so one might be able to fully comprehend the ideas being expressed by the writer and not conclude that perhaps the writer didn't know what those little dots were for on the keyboard, so they were just placed intermittently in the paragraph for good measure.
Dear Anonymous, I merely was trying to make three points: first, that Mormons as a whole feel it their right to legislate their morality onto others; second, that devout Mormons follow the will of their church leadership, when that will gets expressed; and third, that non-Mormons outside of Utah should understand how that impacts non-Mormons inside Utah, as it could impact them similarly given a Mormon in the White House. those seem to me to be very valid points to convey to people who may not share all Mormon values and may have a concern about their own rights being infringed.
Rich,
If you were enlightened, then It might make sense for you to tell others, but since you are not correct, you are just passing on a stereotype that is not correct. Or in otherwise, increasing prejudice and bigotry.
Having live most of my life in Utah, you are not correct.
Perhaps with a little light reading, you would open your eyes.
http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/public-issues/political-neutrality
I mean, gosh, I'd hate to think I'd offended you by expressing my opinion... to as many people as I can possibly get to listen. it could be worse, if you think about it. I could be in a position to force my beliefs and morals on you. can you just imagine?
Rich is absolutely right about this:
Mormons do not discriminate, they merely "enforce their own right to define the legal definition of marriage, decide who can hold a job, who can buy a home and generally who can pursue life, liberty and happiness".
They have all the money and all the good jobs in this state.
But this is just a misdemeanor compared to the hubris of the 'cultural mormon' backed with all the certainty of their own infallibility.
In San Juan County where it is common practice to jump the mining claims of every recently deceased widow's late husband, they have coming home parties for people who have been charged with 40 counts of bank fraud and money laundering.
Every building permit must pass through the County Commission who is staffed by the same people as described above.
As you can imagine their is no real industry here so the Mormons decide who gets what government job. Of course it is their 'right' to do so.
And most of the fraud involves the school district or human services to the native americans, because that's the only new money that flows into the county.
Then there is CRP fraud, title land fraud and mining claim fraud.
It all started when Brigham Young sent settlers out here for no better reason than firming up the borders of the state and keeping a thumb on the Indians.
Rich, You could substitute gays or blacks/chicanos, or liberals for Mormons.....so what is your point?
1)Gay as a whole feel it their right to legislate their morality onto others;
2)devout Gays follow the will of the Gay Agenda, when that will gets expressed;
3)that non-Gays outside of homosexualdom should understand how that impacts non-Gays inside Utah, as it could impact them similarly given a Gay in the White House. Those seem to me to be very valid points to convey to people who may not share all Gay values and may have a concern about their own rights being infringed!
Hey ray ....can you say the word Bigot!
Rich,
If you want to make a point, use few words. Then people may read what you write. I couldn't make it through your essay. It was too boring. Same old blah, blah. Try to come up with something creative or original. That would be a first for anti-mormons. Try thinking for yourself.
Hey, who cares about Rich? He's obviously young and unemployed and has a lot to learn (capitalization being the least of his problems). Let's talk to Glen.
Glen, thanks for the post. As others have intimated, Ms. Walsh must do more than be obnoxious and provocative -- she must get her facts straight, which she demonstrably could not do this time out (or several others, if memory serves).
Rebecca Walsh (and others like her) is precisely the reason that news on newsprint is dying. We're willing to put up with reading some of her garbage when it's free and online -- but no one (or thereabouts) is willing to pay for it.
What does living in the south have to do with anything? I lived in the south, right in the middle of bible belt country. It's nothing like Utah. The state legislature didn't seek approval from the Baptist church for every issue. People didn't give me weird looks when I drank coffee. COFFEE!! Also, people didn't ask me what church I went to, or anything about my religious beliefs- they respected it as being personal- unlike Utah. So no, Utah is NOT like the south.
When an article is written with the intention to piss the powers to be off, it does not say anything to the quality of the article.
You want a fight so you will have something to write about tomorrow. I once heard of reporters having to go find stories instead of making them up by bantering others.
Is this what it takes to sell you obsolete paper now?
Glen-
Once again, you prove to be a tard. "Otterson goes on to tediously explain the church's constitutional right to meet with lawmakers. He condescending writes as if Utahns walk around with buckets on their heads."
The reason he explained it was because Walsh implied that it was an "unconstitutional outrage". So you'll have to pardon Otterson for defending one of her key allegations.
Here's another thing, Tard-boy. If reporters were welcomed into the meetings, I have this sneaking suspicion that, should no secret handshakes and knowing nods occur between leaders, the paper might imply that the meeting was "for show" and the real deal making would happen another time. See, it's not hard to write this garbage. It just takes imagination, and the ability to assume the worst.
When Mormons meet together under the guise of helping the needy, encouraging compassion in organizations, and promoting Christianity, they are really just trying to make journalists mad and punish everyone in the world.
it would certainly be helpful for non-Mormon voters outside of Utah to know that Mormon legislators like to meet regularly with leaders of the Mormon church to get counsel and guidance on the wholesale implementation of Mormon doctrine through legislation. all non-Mormons should know about this before they cast their votes for a Mormon candidate. they may be perfectly comfortable with the influence "the church" has over its legislative brethren. but they should at least be aware so they can make an informed decision.
"it would certainly be helpful for non-Mormon voters outside of Utah to know that Mormon legislators like to meet regularly with leaders of the Mormon church."
How naive of you to think that Non Mormon voters dont already know this. Talk about talking down at people.
To tell the whole story, every Legislator, not just the "non-mormons" are invited. Dont forget to leave that part out Rich.
All of these anony-mice jumping to the defense of TH'CHURch reminds me of my old mother, RIP, who would say "the guilty dog howls the loudest." And notice that Rich and JJ, who agreed with him, are the only ones who don't resort to name-calling and insults. Speaks volumes about the defenders of the faith, doesn't it? And speaking of Mormons "helping the needy," (anony-moron @ 12:19), that $180K they spent to fight Prop 8 sure would have fed a lot of hungry people, wouldn't it? But obviously Jeebus wants us to hate on the homos instead.
stephen... non-Mormons inside Utah likely know that. but outside of Utah, it's probably not as well known. and so I do my part to educate and make it known.
and you're right, I should make it a point to say that "both Mormon and non-Mormon legislators are invited to hear how 'the church' wants them to vote". it's funny... when you say the phrase 'the church' so a Southern Baptist, they look at you for clarification. that doesn't happen here in Utah.
"The guilty dog howls the loudest."
Hmmm... Who started the howling? It couldn't have been the local front page article from Walsh accusing the LDS Church of an "unconstitutional outrage", could it? Yes, the LDS Church should just shut up and take their lumps, right? Wrong. The Apostle Peter told members of the early church to have a "ready answer" for all men. In the vein, the church is simply giving that ready answer.
And yeah, I've called Warchol a "tard" a few times. Shame on me. I find taunting him gets his attention, and then I can present some facts or arguments that he has entirely overlooked. I don't think Jesus ever endorsed that style. :(
Rich,
I agree with your comment on "the church". Even though there are many other faiths in Utah. "the church" is known as the LDS faith.
It could be worse, you could live in Italy where the whole country knows who "the church" is.
I have lived out Utah most of my life. Most larger organized churches meet with city and state goverment officials and always lobby thier doctrine.
If your only experience with that is the LDS church, then you need to get out of the state more. The LDS church will continue to invite all Legislators LDS or non LDS. They will lobby thier doctrine, no matter what you and I feel about it.
Rdale - Jeebus is spelled Jesus and no Jesus does not teach to hate anyone.
If Jeebus doesn't teach hate, then why is it such a feature in Utah? Hate the homos, hate the immigrants, hate people who don't worship gunz, hate hate hate. I'm sure the next comment will be "I don't hate anyone, I just hate the sin of homosexuality/crime of illegal immigration/lack of respect for gunz, not the people who do these things. We're all about peace and love here in the shining land o'Zion. Yeah right. This whole state is nothing but repressed hatred. I'm waiting for the day when the Brethern down on North Temple get a revelation that it's time to smite the unbelievers and drive them out of Jeebus's valley.
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