One who said 'No'
The list of torture links to Utah or LDS people keeps growing:• BYU grad federal Judge Jay Bybee, who as a Justice Department Legal Counsel wrote the "torture memos" that allowed it to begin.Now we hear about devout Mormon Alyssa Peterson, an Arabic interpreter who refused to take part in torture when ordered in 2003. She shot herself with her own rifle a few days later. Peterson, a Flagstaff, Ariz., native, served with C Company, 311th Military Intelligence BN, 101st Airborne. According to Flagstaff public radio station, KNAU:
• Psychologists James Elmer Mitchell and Bruce Jessen, the CIA's "Mormon Mafia" who designed the "Clockwork Orange" interrogation methods.
• Olympic savior and wanna-be-president Mitt Romney who says torturing suspected terrorist is hunky-dory and investigating those who ordered it is "the lowest form of partisianship."
• Utah Sen. Orrin Hatch defends Bybee as "one of the most honorable people you'll ever meet."
Peterson objected to the interrogation techniques used on prisoners. She refused to participate after only two nights working in the unit known as the cage. Army spokespersons for her unit have refused to describe the interrogation techniques Alyssa objected to. They say all records of those techniques have now been destroyed.
Peterson was reprimanded for showing "empathy" for torture victims. In the official report into her death reports:
She said that she did not know how to be two people; she ... could not be one person in the cage and another outside the wire.
16 Comments:
Why do you only put in stupid LDS people as if we are mini-Saddam's? You're list could also include Harry Reid who has stood up for human rights. I'm sure you could compose a similar list of people of any faith.
Just as we point out the radical Muslims (i.e., Taliban) for their perversion of the principles upon which they claim their religion is based, so we can reasonably and rightly point out the same kinds of behaviors in those who claim to be Christians. In Utah, where the LDS Church holds all the marbles, it is fair to point out apparent lapses in their behaviors. And yes there are many good Latter-Day Saints out there but too many have the attitude of moral superiority. It is sometimes nice to know that they too have feet of clay.
Somehow when the people who say they are the only ones god is letting into heaven help create the rules against everything god and religion stand for, it's a lot more interesting.
Geez...why don't you also list all the Mormons who fought for Germany during WWII?
I bet Bybee is the only appreciative recipient of Hatch's latest CD. Either that or he's a drug-addled rap star when he's not working on the bench.
I'm actually surprised the Mormon method of "shoveling" (beheading or bludgeoning the head with a shovel) was never employed by these goons.
The Bush Administration was perhaps one of the most religious administrations we've had, certainly in the last century, including many evangelicals and more than a few LDS members in high ranking positions.
One only need to look in a thread about atheists or homosexuals to see repeated assertions that only religious people can have morals and ethics, that liberals are consumed by a self-destructive "because it feels good it is right" idealogy. It's pretty darn easy to find video clips of voters who will vote for someone purely because of their religious beliefs.
I think this dark episode in America's history puts the lie to those beliefs. Voting for someone by using their religion as a sort of crib-sheet of their beliefs and ethical behavior is stupid at best. Religion may provide a moral code for its adherents. That said, those who are most visibly religious are perfectly free to disregard that moral code for power, fear, and hatred.
warchol sucks
Regardless of one's feelings about whether the interrogation techniques constitute torture or were wrong, lay off Bybee. He gave advice to clients as an attorney. Is every attorney saddled with the alleged sins of his clients? No.
Lay off Bybee? Are you kidding? If we've learned anything over the last week, what we've learned is that the Bush administration was intent on committing torture. Once their minds had been made, they sought out people like Bybee to provide the justification. He didn't counsel them, he aided and abetted them.
To the ever-voluble--loquacious, even!--anony-mouse at 1:30PM, who greets every post on this blog with "warchol sucks." Since you seem to read this blog so avidly, doesn't that mean that you, by extension, also suck? Just askin'.
Yeah, lay off Bybee. Lawyers don't make policy, they advise on the law. Big difference. If you start punishing lawyers for giving legal advice, you substantially diminish the value of legal advice and a lawyer's willingness to be candid. That's not good.
For anyone that's interested, I've posted a long piece on my blog (http://leftwingcentrist.blogspot.com/) that goes into this in more detail. I'd appreciate your feedback if you have any.
So lawyers who advise clients that they can violate international law, American laws and treaties (even those signed by Ronald Reagan) are completely blameless when their clients then implement their policy advice?
Wow. I want to be a lawyer so I can give people policies to indefinately detain and waterboard people.
You've got it wrong. A lawyer who gives bad (in this case, terrible) and wrong advice is indeed liable for that advice, and should be at the very least disbarred.
This doesn't diminish the legal advice or prevents them from being candid. It encourages them to provide good legal advice within the confines of the law.
i find it funny that so many of you idiots think that waterboarding is toture. it's completely safe. i've had it in training.
the larger problem is that those same idiots are hurting our country, but not for the reasons why you'd think.
yes, torture doesn't work. the problem is that you have to have alternatives to the technique. if the individual that is being interrogated KNOWS that nothing is going to happen to them no matter what you say, then they won't say a thing. what can an interrogator do in response? nothing. you can't threaten the guy because he KNOWS that you're B.S.'ing them.
a good example is in iraq. if the guy keeps his mouth shut,then you can say "ok, if you're not going to talk to me, then i'll have to give you to the iraqi's because they want to talk to you." you can infer what happens in an iraqi interrogation. guess what happens then? THEY TALK!
THAT is why you idiots have no clue what you're doing. congratulations, guys.
I am saddened by Ms. Peterson's story, but it is simply not believable.
It is interesting that so many of you believe anti-war stories without questioning the veracity.
Know the source before you believe it.
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