Who would Jesus torture?
As you might have noticed, America's love affair with torture is big news — a fresh story breaking every day. Utah media's "local hook" to this foul legacy of George W. Bush is that some of the key players, including Brigham Young University grad Jay Bybee, who wrote the infamous "torture memos," are Mormon. (Fun trivia: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is headquartered in Salt Lake City). Two other LDS members, known in the CIA as the "Mormon Mafia," devised the CIA's high-tech thumb screws.Unfortunately, precious little local coverage has been done on Utah's torture connection. The best has been an op-ed column by Salt Lake attorney, retired brigadier general and LDS member David Irvine. But even this scant coverage has earned a sharp rebuke from the Deseret News/Mormon Times media columnist Joel Campbell:
Here's the recent headline in two columns in The Salt Lake Tribune: "On opposite poles: two Mormons on torture" and "LDS lawyers, psychologists had a hand in torture policies." The Huffington Post follows up with a column by a retired colonel: "Two Mormons, Two ethics on torture" and a New York Times blog quoting Vanity Fair about the "Mormon Mafia." So was the faith of either (now) Judge Jay Bybee and Alyssa Peterson necessary for telling the story? If it was, why does "Mormon" belong in the headline? It is a requirement for faiths to take public stands on torture?
And with all of this ink spilt on the Mormon-interrogation ties, there has yet to be a balanced report from an investigative journalist sorting out the facts related to the legality of Bybee's decisions and the implications of religious affliation.I agree with Campbell on one point — I'd like to see some digging on this issue. How many of these lawyers and psychologists were trained at BYU? Is there a connection between BYU, the LDS religion and Christianity, in general, to torture and following orders? Others are fascinated in the sociology of torture. A recent study finds the faithful Christians are OK with torture.
The more often you go to church, the more you approve of torture. This is a troubling finding of a new survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. Shouldn't it be the opposite? After all, who would Jesus torture? Since Jesus wouldn't even let Peter use a sword and defend him from arrest, it would seem that those who follow Jesus would strenuously oppose the violence of torture. But, not so in America today.One thing's for sure, we aren't going to get in-depth reporting from Campbell, who ignored the issue — he prefers stories about Mormon snowboarders, not waterboarders — until it was shoved in his face. Will the DNews, with its advance-the-faith marketing strategy, take it on? I doubt it.
By the way, other Mormons sharply disagree with Campbell.
Sorry Joel, a worldwide church has got to expect scrutiny, especially when its leaders orchestrate a positive spin on Mormonism. As Campbell and I recently discussed on KUED, in Utah — where LDS church members control the Legislature, the governor's office and most dog catchers, along with the economy — Mormons are not a put-upon minority. The LDS Church is The Man.
In the traditon of comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable,* reporters, bloggers, Twitterers, and even columnists should be watching the church and writing about its members' activities.
* Hell raiser Finley Peter Dunne.
14 Comments:
Jesus lived in the time of the Roman occupation.
What we have recorded does not indicate he spent his time commenting on Roman war practices, which included torture. He said "render unto Caesar". He knew about politics and undoubtedly knew that warfare existed, but he did not get involved in Caesar's jurisdiction.
To answer the question, he would torture no one.
I do not know who he would torture, probably nobody, however along the same lines, I find it interesting that we are so concerned about people who think nothing of killing innocent people, but if you want to see true torture, look up partial birth abortion and see what they do to innocent babies and then tell me that the ACLU and the current administration, (which by the way supports this abortion) are concerned about human life.
Doesn't Jesus torture every time he sends someone to hell. FOR ETERNITY.
You are right Jesus would probably not torture anyone.
The again, he never had to get secret information out of terrorists that tend to regard Jews as infidels, at least from my reading of the Good Book.
A better question: Would a Muslim terrorist (because, hey, that's who we are dealing with here)tell Jesus the truth without having to be tortured?
Seems like this article was grasping at straws hoping to bash the LDS church for any reason. Stick to the topic in the headlines or at least have the courage to say what you mean in the headline.
To those who say Jesus would torture no one, because he is "always nice" - You are attributing your own ideals to Jesus.
On at least once instance, Jesus used violence to drive moneychangers out of the temple.
I am a peaceful person, but if someone came into my home to hurt my family, I would certainly use violence to defend my family.
Let's say two criminals kidnap one of your family and are planning to murder them - and you had the murderer's partner-in-crime in custody. They know where your loved one is being held, and won't tell you where. They also aren't shy about proclaiming their guilt, and in fact mock the fact that your loved one will soon be dead. If you don't find them soon, they will be murdered.
Do you torture the murderer who laughs that your loved one is about to die?
It is better for a murderer to suffer torture than to allow them to inflict torture on the innocent (crashing planes into buildings full of people, for instance).
As Korihor said, Hell will be full of torture for murderers, so don't try to force your own ideals on Jesus. His mercy is extended to repentant sinners, but the proud wicked will suffer in Hell for their crimes against their fellow men.
The great irony in all the comments regarding Jesus and Hell is that they are completely unrelated to this post. Do you really know nothing of LDS doctrine? There is no Hell. Really. Look it up, I'll wait. See? No Hell. You've got your three kingdoms and Outer Darkness. Even the lowest kingdom has been described as better than earth. Everyone goes to Heaven. That's the reward for aligning with Heavenly Father in the pre-existence. Outer Darkness is different than Hell and is reserved for those who deny Christ.
As for torture, Jesus wouldn't. Christians who believe otherwise have some serious cognitive dissonance to work through.
What we needs is to get one of these Mormon guys on American Idol. The local press would cover the hell out of that.
Glen,
This situation reminds me of a great Ben Stiller quote from the movie "Starsky and Hutch:" Those poor ex-cons, they can't catch a break." Substitute "terrorist" for "ex-con" and it's even funnier.
I think it's harder for people to feel sincere guilt for torturing terrorists. Not sure why. Of course the people screaming the loudest are those most likely to support baby killing, which is quite a paradox if you ask this Mormon.
I've often wondered why the world isn't fair. Visit Haiti and you'll likely feel the same way. What I don't wonder or worry heavily about is terrorists being tortured. Does it make me comfortable? No. Do I have more important, meaningful things to worry about? I'm going to have to go with yes on that one.
Keep 'em coming Glen. You'll find the bone one of these days big guy.
Who would Jesus Taser?
Some of the strongest, certainly most informed, arguments against torture have been made by one of the world's most eloquent atheists, Christopher Hitchens.
Viz:
http://www.slate.com/id/2217583/
Oh the irony, a blogger castigating a columnist for not being a serious journalist.
"Do you really know nothing of LDS doctrine? There is no Hell. Really. Look it up"
You should really do your OWN reading before making claims like this, because you are quite mistaken.
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/40/11,13-14#11
Those who live in glass houses ...
If the LDS Church is "The Man" to Campbell, then Media News Group/Dean Singleton is "The Man" for you.
Mormons and their values are safe targets for you. Singleton and his values are not. Where is the digging into Singleton's career in connection with the debt-laden dismantling of newspapers nationwide, not to mention The Associated Press?
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